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Divisions in Sip Pal Ki

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  • Divisions in Sip Pal Ki

    I think the different schools that have separated from Grand Master Yoo Soo-Nam are diluting the technique of Sipalki Yeon Bi Ryu, as can be seen in these hyons performed by members of Sipalki Mubikwan:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCm6AFwzgIM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWx3zwzvuD8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71CExGapru8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7XUAHVlXow
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwq2RLsZJZU

    Swallow

  • #2
    Are the moves meant to be performed so robotically? I've never heard of this art before, please inform me about it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Piston View Post
      Are the moves meant to be performed so robotically? I've never heard of this art before, please inform me about it.
      No, the forms shouldn't be done that way, the lack precision, fluidity and energy, the movements are done in the right order, but in a word they are done in a sloppy way.

      Sipalki Mubikwan is an spin off from Sipalki Yeon Bi Ryu, with a mixture of other weapons, it was created by Carlos Dorn, whom after separating from Master Yoo, self graduated and created that school.

      To give you an idea of what Sipalki (yeon bi ryu) looks like, there is an old video in You Tube

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nbsK...ated&search=tv

      For further information I copy the relevant parts from “Ancient Military Manuals and Their Relation to Modern Korean Martial Arts”, Journal of Asian Martial Arts, Vol. 12, Num. 4, november 2003.

      If you are interested you can read the full article (in four parts) at:

      http://www.taekwon.com.ar/a.pdf
      http://www.taekwon.com.ar/b.pdf
      http://www.taekwon.com.ar/c.pdf
      http://www.taekwon.com.ar/d.pdf

      "ABOUT THE EIGHTEEN TECHNIQUES (SHIP PAL KI)

      It is noteworthy that in Hwang Kee’s Soo Bahk Do Dae Kam manual
      (1978) there are two different lists of eighteen techniques. They are both
      described as “Ship Pal Ki” and neither coincides with the list of the Muye
      Shinbo. Even though one of Hwang’s lists does show some similarity to the
      latter—such as, different types of lances and sabers for battle—in the
      descriptions by Hwang there are weapons such as the bow, crossbow, and whip.

      Any attempt to fully analyze such lists is very difficult, as in Hwang Kee’s
      book they are in Chinese ideograms only, and many of such characters refer
      to old weapons that are no longer in use. We have identified only a few of
      them and we have not been able to find their meaning in Chinese-Korean
      dictionaries.

      An additional series of Eighteen Techniques, also different from those
      listed in the Muye Shin Bo, has survived to our time. It is the series taught by
      Yoo Sam Nam, a Ship Pal Ki (which he has romanized as “Sipalki”) martial
      art master who has lived and taught in Argentina for more than thirty years
      (Yoo, n.d.). Yoo includes the following specialties in his teaching:
      What are the reasons behind the difference between Hwang Kee’s and
      Yoo Soo Nam’s lists and those of the Muye Shinbo digest? We must take into
      account that in Korea, after the publication of the Muye Dobo Tong Ji in 1790,
      large scale battles against mounted invaders had lost importance as probable
      combat scenarios (Henning, 2000, states that many sections of the Muye Dobo Tong Ji had already lost all practical value by the time of its publication).

      Following the success of the campaigns against the Japanese invasions, and
      after that danger had been overcome, a decline and abandonment of military
      training was the norm in Korea, even though many former soldiers continued
      practicing martial arts within their families. Logically, most techniques
      designed to face mounted enemies were replaced by infantry weapons, techniques, and martial arts training concentrated on these things.

      1. Ho Sin Sul: Self-defense
      2. Kyo Yon: Pugilism, one against many
      3. Kwob Bop: Pugilism, one against one
      4. Nang Kon: Articulated sticks
      (short and symmetrical) also called
      ssang jol kon (c., nung cha kung;
      j., nunchaku)
      5. Dan Bong: Short stick
      6. Bong: Long staff, also called jang bong
      7. Kom: Saber
      8. Dan Kom: Short sword (knife)
      9. Ssang Kom: Double sword (knives)
      10. Chung Ion Do: Sword
      (ion do means “dragon sword,”
      a name used in ancient China)
      11. Bang Pe: Shield
      12. Ssan: Belt /sash
      13. Pyon Sul: Whip
      14. Chang: Spear
      15. Chong Kom: Bayonet
      (literally “Sword Spear”)
      16. Jwan: Brass knuckle
      17. Doki: Axe
      18. Kung Sul: Archery"

      Comment


      • #4
        I have read about Sipalki Ion Bi Ryu in bullshido.net, from what I could find, it's a modern style based in Hapkido, it doesn't look nothing like the Shippalgi of the Muyedobotongji. It has the typical pre fabricated post occupation KMA story.
        I found this videos in youtube:

        This is how Hyungs must be performed????????????????

        [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89FksHKI5J4[/YOUTUBE]
        [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lImmNC-oChU[/YOUTUBE]
        [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UPPW11ChSU[/YOUTUBE]

        And this is Yoo Soo Nam??????

        [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzPsEDsa6pE[/YOUTUBE]
        [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqgTFaFQ6wo[/YOUTUBE]
        [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3BR9mOtM24[/youtube]



        [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MLv4Kdu_ps[/YOUTUBE]
        [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSH0R4KVejE[/YOUTUBE]
        [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXdH9pXiPSg[/YOUTUBE]

        Judging from the videos, it doesn't look like a very good martial art............

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Hapkiyudo View Post
          I have read about Sipalki Ion Bi Ryu in bullshido.net, from what I could find, it's a modern style based in Hapkido, it doesn't look nothing like the Shippalgi of the Muyedobotongji. It has the typical pre fabricated post occupation KMA story.
          The videos are from different schools, some have separated from Grand Master Yoo and diluted the style.

          Some people said the korean Shippalgi is just kung fu, and they recreated the style copying the drawings in the MUYE DOBO TONGI.

          Personally having practiced both Sipalki and Hapkido can see your point, they are very, very similar.

          Originally posted by Hapkiyudo View Post
          Judging from the videos, it doesn't look like a very good martial art............
          When Grand Master Yoo immigrated to Argentina in 1970, he faced the same challenge many times, his answer was always "Come and fight". He never lost one fight.

          Swallow

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Swallow View Post
            The videos are from different schools, some have separated from Grand Master Yoo and diluted the style.

            Some people said the korean Shippalgi is just kung fu, and they recreated the style copying the drawings in the MUYE DOBO TONGI.

            Personally having practiced both Sipalki and Hapkido can see your point, they are very, very similar.
            The empty hand style in the Muyedobotongji is Taizu Chang Quan (Taizu Long Boxing), it was taken from the book Jixiao Xinshu written by General Qi Jiguang.
            If I remember correctly, the only korean style in the book is Bon Kuk Gum (Shilla Kingdom Sword).
            And it's impossible to recreate the style from the drawings... you have to know the style first.

            When Grand Master Yoo immigrated to Argentina in 1970, he faced the same challenge many times, his answer was always "Come and fight". He never lost one fight.

            Swallow
            Really? There are videos of the fights?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Hapkiyudo View Post
              The empty hand style in the Muyedobotongji is Taizu Chang Quan (Taizu Long Boxing), it was taken from the book Jixiao Xinshu written by General Qi Jiguang.
              As far as I know this is correct

              Originally posted by Hapkiyudo View Post
              And it's impossible to recreate the style from the drawings... you have to know the style first.
              I don't know about that, but in Korea tthere is a movemente that is trying to recreate it, obviously they depend on other styles not only the drawings.

              This article is from
              http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=268

              Ship Pal Gi (pronounced SIP Pal Gi) roughly translates as "18 skills." The earliest references to this art exist in a book called "Hyun Rung Ji," which described 18 techniques for the use of the spear. Later the art reputedly incorporated horseback techniques. Although there is currently an art existing by this name, its connection to these original arts is anything but clear.

              Sip Pal Gi as taught today is largely a Korean adaptation of Northern T'ang L'ang (Northern Mantis Kung Fu) often with the addition of classical Chinese weapons. Although there are claims for this art dating back to the Yi (Choson) Dynasty (1392-1910), this cannot be confirmed to be the original art or a reconstruction.

              Northern Mantis (to which many Sip Pal Gi adherents claim lineage) is far easier to track historically than its southern counterpart and can be recognized as having been created by a Wang Lang (believed to have been a Ming Patriot). Lang allegedly seeking greater skill, went and trained at the Honan Temple, and was reputedly inspired by the observation of a Praying mantis locked in combat. Studying the movements of this fascinating creature, Wang combined new movements with several systems he had studied (often noted is Monkey style footwork).

              After it grew in popularity the original Northern Mantis style (sometimes referred to as Temple style) splintered into many derivatives or "offshoots," such as Seven Star, Jade Ring and Dragging Hand, amongst others. The differences between these variations is relatively minor, and one can easily recognize the classic use of "Mantis Hands" (resembling those of the creature itself) as well as its elbow striking techniques and footwork. It should also be noted that one interesting derivative, Plum Blossom Mantis, uses closed fist technique more than other variants.

              Here is another article:

              Sippalgi: Art of the Korean warrior redux

              W
              ith Korea sandwiched between China and Japan, the Korean people have lived under the constant threat of war. In order to survive, they perfected a sophisticated tradition of martial arts and self-defense techniques.

              But in the wake of centuries of destruction on the peninsula, most of this recorded heritage was lost, necessitating the apt Korean maxim, "instruct orally and teach with the heart."

              ▲Gijang flag spears lead the call to battle.
              More recently, Westerners have underestimated the skills of the Korean warrior, knowing only of the Japanese samurai; this may now be changing with the reinvigoration of these traditions.

              The Society for the Preservation of the Traditional Martial Art Sippalgi, or 18 technical routines, is dedicated to the reconstruction of Korean military arts. There are now about 50,000 members here, including 18 university clubs, as well as practitioners in the United States and Spain.

              The sippalgi society is presenting its training to the public on the first and third Sundays of November and December, at 1 p.m. and 3 p.m., in front of the National Folk Museum building at Gyeongbok Palace.

              Members choreograph 22 of their graceful but lethally precise unarmed and armed techniques, from kicking and punching, to stick, spear and sword wielding.

              Sippalgi was standard military training in the second half of the Joseon Dynasty (1392-1910). The main sippalgi text is titled Muyesinbo (New Chronicle of Various Martial Arts), a revised version of an earlier military text that was ordered by King Yeongjo (r. 1724-1776) in 1759, adding 12 techniques to bring the total to 18.

              Sippalgi's modern revival began with founder Kim Gwang-suk, who in 1951 at age 16 apprenticed under his master Yun Meong-duk. Kim opened a training hall in front of Seoul Station in 1969 and made teaching sippalgi to the next generation his life's work.

              ▲Choi Bok-kyu (front) combines the five postures, mental concentration and sword-skills.
              "Generally speaking, the practice of martial arts is to initiate the foundation of self-cultivation and build one's character. I think we should strive to spread this truth, to return to the proper path. Sippalgi is part of our treasured heritage, which we should preserve and without fail hand down to the next generation," Kim said.

              "There is a proverb that stick skills require 100 days, spearmanship 10 days, and swordsmanship 10,000 days," said Choi Bok-kyu, a 15-year sippalgi practitioner and doctoral student of physical education at Seoul National University.

              "The philosophy of modern sippalgi emphasizes four distinct aspects in training: health, self-defense, self-cultivation, and keeping Korean traditional culture and mind alive," he explained.

              Central to this holistic approach is the highest level of physical, mental, and "gi" (vital energy) training.

              "First we train in the five fundamental postures. These include the head, torso, legs, arms and mind," Choi explained. Mastery and integration of the five requires one and a half years of daily training, with the aim of harmonizing one's internal and external situation in battle.

              With properly focused five principles, the body is calm and supple, and moves with precision in relation to things around him, he said.

              ▲The next generation of practitioners use the first level of armed techniques.
              The 18 martial techniques begin with unarmed training, or gwonbeop, including punching, wrestling and kicking, all of which are fundamental to the higher levels of armed training.

              Spears of various lengths and materials include the nangsun, a 4.5-meter-long spear made of bamboo or iron, studded with up to 11 metal hooks. Next are the gijang flag spear, the woldo (a staff with a crescent sword attached) and the hyeopdo spear sword.

              On the battlefield, the 1.5-meter jangchang spear is a flexible weapon. The jukjangchang has a 10 cm blade perched on a 6 meter bamboo spear. The dangpa trident is of various lengths, often used for defense. The pyeongon is an 2.5- meter staff with a 60 cm flailing rod attached. And the gonbong is a 2- meter-long staff with a wide blade attached to the end.

              Korean sword types include the double-edged straight blade, the curved single-edged blade and the straight single-edged blade.

              Of these, the bongukgeom is said to have been used by the Hwarang, or elite youth corps of the Silla Dynasty (57 B.C.-A.D 935). The yeado is a short sword used for training soldiers. The ssangsudo is a 2-meter-long sword used for close combat. Ssanggeom is a technique of wielding twin single-bladed short swords. And deungpae is the method of combining a sword and shield.

              Sword techniques include a straight-line cutting and thrusting movement of the swordsman, the single or two-handed technique, which includes defensive spinning and low cutting actions, and the inverted sword, with the sharp edge up, poking and slicing for close-range fighting.

              The final three techniques include jedokgeom, a method of swinging the sword to break out of a surrounded position. Waegeom was a 16th century adaptation of the strengths of Japanese swordsmanship to use their own style against them, and gyojeon, denoting two swordsmen training together, Japanese style.

              In the midst of the chaos and harrowing experiences of the battlefield, a calm spirit is crucial. Thus meditation, said Choi, is the third step in one's training, which melds the mind, body and weapon together.

              Having mastered all 18 techniques, calmness of mind and vital energy training result in a consummate warrior.

              "There are three forms of meditation," Choi explained. "The first is standing meditation, moving one's limbs and accumulating vital energy and circulating it through the body. Next is sitting meditation, and lastly, lying meditation just before sleep."

              In the long history of Korean martial arts, Choi said health and vital energy training has been made into a science, and provides practitioners with a honed physical and mental strength.

              Self-cultivation, an ever-present element of Asian philosophy and education, also plays a central role in sippalgi. The hours of daily training, the etiquette and self-discipline involved, along with the sense of pride in Korean culture and history, motivate practitioners to improve every aspect of their daily lives.

              "I started just as a hobby, but sippalgi has become a kind of life-goal for me," said Bak Keum-su, an engineering student who has practiced sippalgi three or four times a week for three years. "I'm planning to get a degree in the philosophy of physical education, and in particular the philosophy of martial arts."

              Choi said that although their training is based on ancient Korean knowledge, since sippalgi practitioners live in a modern society, they must reach out to modern customs as well.

              "Korean martial arts used to be about war, but in modern society this goal has changed to personal self-defense," he said. Though the sword is a weapon for killing, it can find a place in modern life to help focus and train a practitioner to cultivate his or her health and outlook on life.

              Judging by the positive reaction of members of the public who attended Sunday's performance, it is fortunate this Korean tradition will be transmitted to the growing ranks of the younger generation.

              The demonstration is free of charge. For more information, call 02-734-1341 or visit the sippalgi Web site (in Korean) at www.muyewon.net.

              By Todd Thacker

              2002.11.16

              Originally posted by Hapkiyudo View Post
              Really? There are videos of the fights?
              I don't think so, during 1970-71 there were not many hand held cameras, and the fights were spontaneous.

              I only know of two articles published in 1971 in the weekly magazine "Siete Dias" that documented one of these challenges by a karate instructor, its title was "EL que a hierro mata a sipalki muere"

              Swallow

              Comment


              • #8
                "To give you an idea of what Sipalki (yeon bi ryu) looks like, there is an old video in You Tube

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nbsK...ated&search=tv"

                Terrible. Some one cut this video in the middle of every technique to make it look faster. Goofy. All that at the end is Shotokan one steps.

                Alcohol

                Comment


                • #9
                  I couldn't watch your link.

                  This is an old (1978) low quality video:

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nbsKpKMImE

                  Another old video showing techniques of Il Su Derion:

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26oH7...elated&search=

                  Swallow

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Errata

                    I was informed by a member of the MUBIKWAN School that the videos posted in the first post do not belong to that school.

                    I apologize for my mistake.

                    Swallow

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Dear Swallow,

                      Thanks for clarify on this thread that those were not our videos. Appreciate it


                      ------------------------------------------------------------

                      www.sipalki-mu.com.ar

                      www.youtube.com/sipalkimubikwan

                      mubikwan.blogspot.com
                      Last edited by SipalkiMubikwan; 11-28-2007, 05:49 PM. Reason: .

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Dear Folks:

                        I just thought I would mention that there may be some risk of playing a bit too fast and loose with the historical facts regarding the MU YE TOBO TONG JI and its KWON BUP material as relates to Korean traditions. I don't want to incurr "thread drift" here but would be willing to share some information based on my own research if people were interested. FWIW.

                        BTW: It also may be important to consider that a body of evidence suggests that the DAN BONG material practiced by most traditional Hapkido arts could easily proceed from the policing techniques of para-military organizations. I mention this because the techniques I am seeing in those clips provided do not work against an instructed individual with a sword unless the instrument being used has a ko-dung-i (lit: "guard") after the fashion of the Japanese and Chinese truncheons and "sword breakers" such as such para-military or police groups have used. FWIW.

                        Best Wishes,

                        Bruce

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Where'd everybody go?

                          Aaaaaa........ Just checking....

                          Is that it? Are we done with this discussion? Just wondering, because if thats the whole discussion right there I have this feeling in my gut that all we have done is provide a little free advertising for yet another group without actually finding out what they do, why or how? Maybe its just me, but we seemed to have been having a healthy exchange of thoughts up to this moment. Thoughts?

                          Best Wishes,

                          Bruce

                          Comment

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