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Response to "JKD vs Krav Maga"

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  • Response to "JKD vs Krav Maga"

    It doesn't matter the style of fighting, no technique is new. Unless one of those internal masters of a style that supposedly teaches you to kill with one blow decides to come out of hiding and starts demonstrating his skill publicly, nothing can claim it is so removed from traditional martial arts(TMA). Aikido isn't. Judo isn't. Neither is Krav Maga or Jeet Kune Do. A punch is a punch, and a kick is a kick.

    These "new" arts aren't offering new physical tools, but new concepts. And its those concepts that differentiate TMA from new street orientated arts like Krav Maga, JKD, Sanuces. Concepts like "Don't kick above the waist" and " Attack the attacker not the weapon". These "new" arts aren't new, but the practice of cross-training makes the students more well rounded in different ranges. BJJ for groundfighting and reversals. Thai boxing for striking low with kicks. Western boxing for hand strikes. Kempo and/or Arnis for flow. Jujitsu and Chin Na for arrest and control techniques. Poison Hand kung fu techniques for rape prevention.

    Yet, not one of the styles that the techniques are being taken from are "new". What's being done is people are taking what they feel is the best techniques from each art, and using them with a more direct, non-sports like approach. Today's street orientated arts are supposed to be geared for what its like in today's world of urban gangs and gun violence. TMA were geared for life back in the times of warfare on horseback, shields and swords ... none of which applies today.

    With that said, to address the original question about JKD vs Krav Maga, I guess it would come down to who's JKD we're talking about. Not everyone's JKD is the same. I've met guys who claim to be experts at JKD, and watch them get taken out by traditional martial artists. Krav Maga is definitely more systematic, as their techniques and concepts are consistent. No matter what KM school you go to, they're teaching pretty much the same thing. With JKD, you can go to 5 different schools and find 5 different systems. The problem with JKD is that the philosophy makes sense, but its a nightmare to teach as a system. That's why there are so many different factions of JKD. Even the founder had a foundation in kung fu, which is a TMA. But IMO JKD doesn't really offer a foundation. Dan Inosanto has a foundation in Phillipino and Indonesian arts, and that's why a large portion of JKD practitioners do Kali and/or escrima, which is a TMA. But there are no clear cut lines as to "why use a method" or more importantly "why NOT to use a method". Its that kind of blurry line that has allowed JKD to be anything anyone wants it to be, as long as in their minds it works for them. Whether its adopting BJJ due to Gracie success in the last 15 years, or adopting Kali because Dan Inosanto does it, because Bruce Lee clearly said that Kali had no place in his JKD.

    So again, which JKD are we talking about when pitting it against Krav Maga?
    Aside from that, it depends on the practitioner, their athleticism and their understanding of their art.

    *Edited due to grammatical errors

  • #2
    my friend u read all of matt thornton's site didnt you, but if you didnt you should def check it out www.straightblastgym.com , it will become your holy bible lol.

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    • #3
      I have not heard of Matt Thornton, but since you were nice enough to provide a link, I'll check out what it brings me to. However, all my conclusions come from a lifetime of studying the arts. Practice and retrospect.

      Thanks

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      • #4
        same here, if you train for performance as you did you naturally come to those conclussions on your own, but listening to matt i gained a whole new level of understanding from it.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by JkD187
          my friend u read all of matt thornton's site didnt you, but if you didnt you should def check it out www.straightblastgym.com , it will become your holy bible lol.
          Well, I checked out the site, and it was nice. Nothing new, but its a great idea. I personally liked the gun range on the same grounds as the school. I think I see why you thought Mr Thornton had the same ideas as I have. We both see the value in having a system that is unified and run with order, as opposed to everyone doing their own thing on a whim with no science behind it. If that was the similarity you spoke of, then yes we have that in common.

          I'm forced to edit my post because after giving the site a second read instead of a quick glance-over, I see that this organization is very similar to my own, with a bit more offered for sporty type MA, while my own is focused only on survival situations.

          But the philosophy is on the right track. The open-mindedness is refreshing and if others catch on to this way of doing things the quality of MA offered will be much, much better.

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          • #6
            its alright man im glad you enjoyed it, however most peope at the sbg are there for self defense, less then 2% actually compete, the point he was trying to get at was that combat sports all had alive sparring which is essential if you wish to apply what you kno in a real life situation, and that most tma dont so he compared it to combat sports because it was something everyone knew of,thanx for the feed back i enjoyed it very much.

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            • #7
              I think you mean "it's" or "it is" not "its". Who said
              alright man im glad you enjoyed it however most peope at the sbg are there for self defense less then 2% actually compete the point he was trying to get at was that combat sports all had alive sparring which is essential if you wish to apply what you kno in a real life situation and that most tma do not so he compared it to combat sports because it was something everyone knew ofthanx for the feed back i enjoyed it very much is?

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              • #8
                is there a need for all that i dont care about how i type and where to put things in im just trying to get a message across and if it bothers u that much then dont read it.

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                • #9
                  I had to edit my post above because after giving the site a good read over, I found my comments to misrepresent my feelings now that I was better informed. Listen JKD187, if all the other guy had to offer was spellchecking your reply, then don't even acknowledge the post. I applaud your wanting to let people know about the message your site is sending, but take it from me ... be careful about how you go about it.

                  If I may give this bit of advice to you, just give out a good thing a let others come to it. If it were money, would you be arguing for people to accept it from you? The answer is no. And while martial arts and concepts may not be money, they still have their value. So now that you've put it out there, let people recognize it in their own time.

                  Thanks for good dialogue

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                  • #10
                    yep your right and i just made a thread about that shyt so yea after that i dont care anymore i just had to get it out there its nice to see people who understand what martial arts are all about, thanx for the advice and keep training my friend.

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                    • #11
                      Me being a big part of the original jkd vs km thread have come to the conclusion; my main problem with krav magra is how is it marketed and the reputation that it's people are so desperately trying to build. From what I have read and heard; it's practictioners and followers want to promote k.m. as the greatest thing since bubblegum. You get the impression that they are trying to build a reptuation on cons. If you want a rep; then earn it.
                      Last edited by Hardball; 09-19-2005, 09:12 PM. Reason: spelling and grammar

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                      • #12
                        Well I have to reply to Hardball asking how you "earn" a reputation for a reality based martial art when you can't fight in tournaments with it? Its a word ouf mouth thing. Many of NY's reality based martial arts got notoriety because many of the top students were fighters in the street. Whether it be as bouncers, personal bodyguards to celebrities and crime figures, correction officers, or just regular people who didn't take sh!t. Their reputations came from people in the street talking about it because they just watched someone get their ass whupped in a way they've never seen before.

                        Krav Maga comes from a different place. Its not really "urban", but it is systematic. It got attention because Jennifer Lopez studied it in her movie "Enough" and that's where the campaign started. They're pretty good. Not the best but they are way ahead of many simply because they don't cling to tradition and are willing to change and improve with the times. I explained earlier the advantages it has over JKD, which is a true system that offers solid basics and a foundation. JKD is whatever you say it is. Such is the curse of its philosophy. I could incorporate ballet and give a strong argument that it enhances balance and agility, and it would have to be recognized as JKD.

                        I can't state this enough: Proof of this is the fact that Dan Inosanto has his roots in the philipino/Indonesian arts. He showed this to Bruce Lee. Bruce said that it had no place it JKD, and that Inosanto should put it aside. After Bruce Lee' s death, nearly every JKD practitioner does kali or escrima, which just goes to show that today's JKD is more a product of Inosanto's vision than it is Bruce Lee's. So with that said, most of the Bruce Lee worshippers may be following Lee's philosophy, but they are really practicing Inosanto's art.

                        Just food for thought for those who haven't seen me write this before.

                        Krav Maga, while a modern system, is a marketing machine. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but many people like Hardball feel as though that kind of marketing is misleading. I feel that way as well, but what else can they do if they have no other way to prove their value? They're not going to say "We have an okay system that in theory will work very well". I hear you, but today's martial arts are a business. Some keep the art sharp and progressive, but mostly its a business. That's why there are so many "McDojo's" and black belts who cannot fight.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Uke
                          I can't state this enough: Proof of this is the fact that Dan Inosanto has his roots in the philipino/Indonesian arts. He showed this to Bruce Lee. Bruce said that it had no place it JKD, and that Inosanto should put it aside.
                          I guess I haven't heard this. Do you know if Bruce gave a reason for feeling that way?

                          Originally posted by Uke
                          After Bruce Lee' s death, nearly every JKD practitioner does kali or escrima, which just goes to show that today's JKD is more a product of Inosanto's vision than it is Bruce Lee's. So with that said, most of the Bruce Lee worshippers may be following Lee's philosophy, but they are really practicing Inosanto's art.
                          I'm ok with that.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by aku aku
                            I guess I haven't heard this. Do you know if Bruce gave a reason for feeling that way?
                            He told Inosanto that much of what he saw wasn't practical. Inosanto admits this, as its no big secret. I'm not bad mouthing Inosanto. I'm just hoping to educate some people who think that JKD is Bruce Lee's art. The philosophy is Lee's, but the actual kali/escrima is all Inosanto. Everything else is some Wing chun, and whatever else a student of JKD sees fit to put in there.

                            Also, JKD was not the first art to advocate crosstraining either. Kajukenbo and VeeJitsu did so way before. JKD got attention because Bruce Lee was in Hollywood, and found a way to get his art and philosophy some exposure. But that doesn't mean that he was a pioneer in the way many of you view him. What I appreciate about Bruce the most was the fact that he influenced more people concerning martial arts than any other figure in the last 100 years. Also, he had the perfect work ethic. Work hard. Work long.

                            This isn't a topic about what I felt about Bruce Lee though. Its about JKD vs Krav Maga. And I already addressed that above.

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                            • #15
                              Oh by-the-way, that original km vs jkd thread must have really ruffled some feathers cause I got "Two reputation points" from that thread. LOL

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