Koo Self Defense ? effective ?

[alwaysmixwell]

I was online searching for somthing and I ran across this Koo Self Defense website. I read about their techniques on real fighting and they seem like they dont work. it says his system relies on KO ing someone before a major confrontation begins.. here their link http://ksdi.net/ does anyone know or has anyone studied in koo ? if so what are your experiences with it ???
So i emailed him last night and i recieved and email and have responded to it.. here it is below.


ME:
i think that you "self defense" is lacking something... reality...i read your unique training system section and i think you have the wrong idea. do you realize that almost every fight ends up on the ground.. punching is a good basis for fighting, but if your system went up against a martial art like brazilian jiu jitsu or shootfighting i think youd get your butt kicked ! and i know im right about this because ive every single fight ive seen a striker vs grappler has always gone to the grappler. such as in the early ultimate fighting matches.

KOO SELF DEFENSE REP:
You are entitled to your opinion about "reality fighting" and you are watching too many UFC and full contact tournaments which are governed by rules and regulation of which there are none on the streets.
Not all people are created equal in mentalabilities, fitness, strength and natural hitting power. There are a very small minority of people out there who can knock people out without having to train in any form of self defense and they are very good at it too!
People who lacks the hitting power to knock their opponent down within the first 10 seconds of a fight will go down to the ground to grapple.
We train for absolute physical fitness and knockout power. Many of my sutdents who have used what they have learned here never went to the ground nor got hit in return nor do they need to block any attacker.
KSD is not about being defensive, our students goes on the offensive as soon as a confrontation begins and finish the fight very quickly.
My challenge to you is to come to my sutdio and train with my students and feel their awesome power and ONLY then will you realize the effectiveness of our training methods.
I have many people like you who ctiticize our method and when they come and experience our workouts and power of KSD students, they soon change their mind.

ME:
so your saying that your system relies 100% on a KO right when a confrontation begins ?? so what if that doesn't work ? i guarantee that it wont work 100% of the time.. then what ? to KO a person its not that easy.. im just curious. i mean a KO would be nice to stop a confrontation but if it doesn't work then you have to go for something else... so my question is what if you dont KO somone in the first say.... minute of a fight ?? and what if you happen to fight a grappler and you dont KO him ? then what does your system offer ?? the reason i mention UFC was that in the early ones the only rule was no eye gouging which is as close to a real fight as your going to see in a tournament..and it happens that people that dont know ground work are very easily submitted.... im just curious about how effective the system is.. i live in california i dont know where your school(s) are.. but id like an answer about my questions.
Thanks !


I THINK THIS GUYS SYSTEM IS LACKING AND HE NEEDS TO GET AN ARMBAR OR CHOKED OUT. HAHA

[Sanitarium]

It sounds good to me. Without fitness and power, technique won't help you much. How many MAs are there which do a lot of groundwork? Not a lot...if you get took to the ground in a real fight vs 2 or more people, you're wasted anyway, unless you're very fit and strong enough to get up. It's best to just go for knockouts one by one, for which you need power.

[m.artist]

It sounds good to me. Without fitness and power, technique won't help you much. How many MAs are there which do a lot of groundwork? Not a lot...if you get took to the ground in a real fight vs 2 or more people, you're wasted anyway, unless you're very fit and strong enough to get up. It's best to just go for knockouts one by one, for which you need power.

ditto. i was just about to say those things exactly

[alwaysmixwell]

yeah a KO would be nice but would either of you 2 rely on that as your only means of self defense for a fighting style ?

[m.artist]

well of course not. but the six yr old kicking the other kid across the room was pretty convincing if u ask me

[alwaysmixwell]

haha.. i mean it will work in some cases. but this guys whole system is based on the 1st like 10 seconds of a fight.. i personally wouldnt rely on that system to be 100% effective.. i think he should match up with a grappler and try his moves.. just like in the gracie in action videos.. one guy was claiming he invented a new "lethal" style and so Royler Gracie challenged him and choked him out both times with relative easy. i dont know if this guy has challenge matchs, but something i find interesting at least with the gracies is basically they say hey we have our style and anyone who feels their style is better can challenge our style to see. and everytime the gracies have won.. what i mean is i wonder if this guys has challenges matches with other MA styles to prove his style is effective you know ??

[TylerDurden]

It is completely unrealistic to say you will just knock someone out instantly and train as if that will always work. Sometimes your opponent is quicker than you, sometimes they have a chin made of stone and you need a hammer to knock them out, and sometimes you just are unlucky. Any art that doesn't deal with "what if this doesn't work" is setting you up to fail.

Ask a BJJ instructor, or a Judo instructor, ok what if that technique doesn't work. They will immediately show you about a dozen things you can try to follow up with. The simply truth is no technique is foolproof, so you need to know what next. This one hit knockout reminds me of a comment from a TMA instructor I overheard once. When asked what to do after getting hit, his reply was "Don't get hit." See in his mind professional boxers, kick boxers/Muay Thai fighters have been doing it all wrong. The trick is, not to get hit, it's so simple.

Any style/school that doesn't prepare you for the first, or even tenth technique you try in a fight to fail is not being realistic.

[alwaysmixwell]

just got an email from him today.. so i guess his system doesnt rely on just KO's but on fighting "dirty" i still think he'd get worked...he relys on eye gouging, groin shots and all that crap. i know it works in some situations but not all !! another idiot trying to market a weak self defense system.. i mean i go by UFC cuz pressure points and all that jazz aren't going to stop a commiting person that wants to rip your head off and most of the time your too amped up to think straight you know ?? i dont think im going to respond to him anymore..

KOO REP:

Well so far, the KSD system has been very effective on the streets. KSD teaches 'survival' techniques not a win or lose type mentality of tournaments. Sometimes it may require fitness to run away as fast as possible from a life threatening situation espcially when confronted with an attacker who is pumped up full of drugs. In that scenario, that attaker can literally fight all night because he will feel no pain. One can literally break both of the attacker's knees, dislocate both shoulders, break both his elbows and he will still fight as if he is intact. In that case you either run or go the the extreme close range fighting and eye gouge both his eyes so that he can not persue you. Survival may even go to the extreme measure, you have no other choice but to kill your opponent of which there are numerous ways which I will not reveal here as children might be tempted to utilize these methods.

I teach my students to fight as dirty as possible, whatever it takes to finish the task and I am not talking about submissions. Should anyone of KSD students goes to grapple, we employ even more dirtier tactics to finish the fight and I mean whatever it takes!

It is funny that martial arts students and instructors often debates about what style is better for the streets and yet they compete amongst each other with all kinds of restrictions and rules. UFC has padded floor in a cage, the streets are concrete jungle, broken glass, stones, thrash cans, lamp posts and many others things that can be used as weapons. Fighting in bars is confine space with many obtacles around you and many potential weapons handy as well. Who says that in order to defend oneself one is restiricted to punches, strikes, knees, elbows, kicks, bite and so forth. There are other things that can be utilize for self defense.

UFC has changed quite considerable since its inception adding more rules and restrictions, where are the gracie fighters or BJJ students? The real battlefield is not with other martial artists but with ordinary street punks who will make a suprise attack when you least expect it in and in their territory.

Street fighters do not get together to practice their techniques nor spar because they know that they posses that natural hitting power that would knock most of their opponents out until they meet someone who is much more powerful that themselves. Street fighters do not follow any rules, they make the rules as the fight progresses.

Martial artists should stop debating the 'ifs and the buts' and if they really want to test what they are learning is effective, then go to the 'tough neighborhood' or to bars where fights occurs quite frequently and experience the reality of street fights themselves.

Sometimes it may require fitness to run away as fast as possible from a life threatening situation espcially when confronted with an attacker who is pumped up full of drugs

this is the smartest thing he's said so far. haha

[m.artist]

just got an email from him today.. so i guess his system doesnt rely on just KO's but on fighting "dirty" i still think he'd get worked...he relys on eye gouging, groin shots and all that crap. i know it works in some situations but not all !! another idiot trying to market a weak self defense system.. i mean i go by UFC cuz pressure points and all that jazz aren't going to stop a commiting person that wants to rip your head off and most of the time your too amped up to think straight you know ?? i dont think im going to respond to him anymore..

KOO REP:

Well so far, the KSD system has been very effective on the streets. KSD teaches 'survival' techniques not a win or lose type mentality of tournaments. Sometimes it may require fitness to run away as fast as possible from a life threatening situation espcially when confronted with an attacker who is pumped up full of drugs. In that scenario, that attaker can literally fight all night because he will feel no pain. One can literally break both of the attacker's knees, dislocate both shoulders, break both his elbows and he will still fight as if he is intact. In that case you either run or go the the extreme close range fighting and eye gouge both his eyes so that he can not persue you. Survival may even go to the extreme measure, you have no other choice but to kill your opponent of which there are numerous ways which I will not reveal here as children might be tempted to utilize these methods.

I teach my students to fight as dirty as possible, whatever it takes to finish the task and I am not talking about submissions. Should anyone of KSD students goes to grapple, we employ even more dirtier tactics to finish the fight and I mean whatever it takes!

It is funny that martial arts students and instructors often debates about what style is better for the streets and yet they compete amongst each other with all kinds of restrictions and rules. UFC has padded floor in a cage, the streets are concrete jungle, broken glass, stones, thrash cans, lamp posts and many others things that can be used as weapons. Fighting in bars is confine space with many obtacles around you and many potential weapons handy as well. Who says that in order to defend oneself one is restiricted to punches, strikes, knees, elbows, kicks, bite and so forth. There are other things that can be utilize for self defense.

UFC has changed quite considerable since its inception adding more rules and restrictions, where are the gracie fighters or BJJ students? The real battlefield is not with other martial artists but with ordinary street punks who will make a suprise attack when you least expect it in and in their territory.

Street fighters do not get together to practice their techniques nor spar because they know that they posses that natural hitting power that would knock most of their opponents out until they meet someone who is much more powerful that themselves. Street fighters do not follow any rules, they make the rules as the fight progresses.

Martial artists should stop debating the 'ifs and the buts' and if they really want to test what they are learning is effective, then go to the 'tough neighborhood' or to bars where fights occurs quite frequently and experience the reality of street fights themselves.

this is the smartest thing he's said so far. haha

actually....everything he has said so far...hs made total sense. im actually thinking of taking a trip to atlanta to see what this guy can do live

[TylerDurden]

It's all well and good to say, gouge the eyes, stike the throat, rip the testicles off, but if you cannot practice it at full speed it won't help you. A good grappler can apply an armlock in the blink of an eye. Why? Because they have done it, at speed, a few hundred (if not thousand) times. How many times can you eye gouge your training partners? If you cannot practice your technique against resisting opponents at full speed, they you cannot apply it by reflex.

[m.artist]

that's very true, but like i said, i would just like to try it out. that's all

[Sanitarium]

The Gracies don't get into fights on the streets do they, against nutters, people with knives, people on drugs..yada yada

I would say grappling isn't a main issue in a streetfight. Of course, you should learn some techniques from every area, just in case, but only the most simple/effective/powerful ones. Streetfights don't often end up on the ground. Well they do, but not both of you, heh.

When I said go for knockouts I didn't necessarily mean one hit KOs, but it'd be the best situation.

Basically you want to end the fight as quick as possible, in any way. If you HAVE to fight you may aswell do it well, and thing like trapping and grappling are too technical to put into proper usage in a streetfight unless they're totally natural to you and you have 100% confidence in your co-ordination in an adrenaline rush. What I was getting at is that it's best to have a few, very well-practised moves, and a lot of power, to make sure you can just get it over with ASAP. Things like crosses to the face/head, kicks to the kneecaps, kicks to the groin, destructions etc. And overall fitness and strength for possibly running away or for delivering heavy blows which will at least stun your enemy.

[Combat Cherokee]

Ignorance must be bliss...

OK so you got the Mixwell guy saying ground this ground that, the Koo master saying KO and fitness and dirty fighting, then the well eye gouges dont work on BJJ or blah blah blah. Reality is for a trained person almost anything is possible, in the right situation. I have a BJJ and mixed ground fighting base, I have the shredder(or for those who dot know what it is "dirty fighting" might help give you a very small idea of what it is) and i have experience in different standing fighting. Not every armbar or submission will work against a stronger opponent, not very punch and kick will work againt a "dirty fighter", and not every dirty fighter will be able to work againt a good grappler. Yet everything works both ways, just cause your big and strong dosnt mean you can beat a smaller submission fighter, and just cause you can fighte dirty at CQC range dosnt mean you can go toe to toe with a good striker, and even good grapplers cant always beat a "dirty fighter". You have one guy here saying this works, and you have a so called master saying this works, well reality is neither one is 100% nor do either one make up the entire self defense spectrum. Saying that only this works, is ignorant. Mixwell Im not saying you dont have a point about groundwork, cause you have a valid reason to question his system, but to say what he said is not valid is wrong, much of what he said in that last post or email is gold, but its still one piece in a huge gold mine. Im reminded of a child hood game I once played...ROCK, PAPER, SCISSOR. Me and my friends were playing and one of them pulled ROCK well the other pulled PAPER(which beats ROCK) so they look at each other and the kid who pulled paper started to laugh for he won the match, the the boy who pulled ROCK proceeded to punch the kid stupid, my thought was I guess ROCK dosnt always lose to PAPER. Nothing is certian in reality, if it was you would never need to know who to defend yourself.

[alwaysmixwell]

the the boy who pulled ROCK proceeded to punch the kid stupid, my thought was I guess ROCK dosnt always lose to PAPER. Nothing is certian in reality, if it was you would never need to know who to defend yourself.

thats the funniest thing ive heard.. not saying your wrong but just picturing it happening.. i believe there is no training that is 100% complete. But i was just questioning him to see what he would offer if his system went to the ground.. I believe bjj as well as this guys system could make someone more of a complete fighter, but to just think that standup is the only way is foolish.. the whole idea of bjj is to take a fight into the phase where you are most trained (which would be the ground). thats all im saying.. and as far as an armbar not stopping anyone if i personally were to get in a fight.. id use bjj to gain the mount and pound my opponent. then id go for a choke or something.. i dont think an armbar is appropriate in a fight.. dont get me wrong but if you break an opponents arm and they dont stop, at least you have even more of an advantage. so thats my P.O.V on things