What ever happened to doing it for free?

[thescottishdude]

I don't know if this is perhaps cultural differences, but in the UK pretty much all the martial arts clubs are run by trainers who just want to get enough money to pay for the hall and the rest is spent on club nights out. Doing it for free.

Over in the UA, by the sounds of this thread, it's alot more capitalist?

[WmBlackstone]

I don't know if this is perhaps cultural differences, but in the UK pretty much all the martial arts clubs are run by trainers who just want to get enough money to pay for the hall and the rest is spent on club nights out. Doing it for free.

Over in the UA, by the sounds of this thread, it's alot more capitalist?

It's simple: it's called paying the bills. Renting space, paying the heat and light bill and providing some money for your own bills, this all takes money.

The owner of the MA school I belong to teaches full-time. He is able to offer classes week days, which fits my schedule, as well as night and weekends. Most schools only offer Saturday classes with a couple classes offered at night. That's because so many MA instructors have full-time jobs to support themselves and their families and teach MA's on the side. It's not easy making a living in the U.S. just teaching martial arts. I know in Japan the dojos depend a great deal on corporate sponsorship to keep their doors open.

The other option is taking classes at your local YMCA or local night school - they usually offer less expensive training.

[thescottishdude]

I don't think there are any dojos that are just there to make money in the UK. But I know there are in the USA. The only people in the UK who teach full-time, as far as I know, are book writers who go from class to class to promote their books etc. Even the heads of our associations do it for free, just for the love of the art.

[Shard]

Its like having a job and your boss asking you, why not do it for free?

It costs money to rent out a decent space where you can train at. Money to pad the floors so you don't get a concussion when you fall. Money to buy the heavy bags for you to kick. Money for the pads and equipment you train on. If your instructor has no other job, he would require some way to make a living.

I consider myself very lucky. My MMA coach trains us for free(you can pay if you want to, buts its not required). His payment is your dedication. He makes a minimal amount selling you equipment that you don't have and wish to purchase from him.
Whether you pay him or not, affects not the quality of his instruction.

The only problem i have with people who make a living off martial arts are those who run MCdojos. Charging fees that could make a lawyer blush yet the quality of their instruction would not even help you survive agaisnt someone with no training whatsoever.

[Tim Mousel]

thescottishdude,

I took a look at some of your websites. Why are you charging for speeches? Why are you charging people for advertising?

I know people who will give speech material for free and websites that will put links for free too.

Tim

[jubaji]

I don't think there are any dojos that are just there to make money in the UK. But I know there are in the USA. The only people in the UK who teach full-time, as far as I know, are book writers who go from class to class to promote their books etc. Even the heads of our associations do it for free, just for the love of the art.

Go peddle your Socialism-fu hypocrisy elsewhere, Karl.

[osopardo]

It is written in the "Wisdom of the Bear" that "...anything offered "for free" is inherently of little or no value. Even dirt is sold for a price."

[Scott Bolinger]

well, it would be nice to be able to afford to teach for free, but it takes money to expand to be able to hav e a faciality big enough that you can deversify the income. I allways look at different way to deversivfy my income with ither retale sales, I also wrote a book, and working on starting to run some tournaments. Doing this , hopefully i'll be able to keep my costs down on my instructors fee. So far, its working allright

[grappler-jordan]

If an instructor cannot afford to pay the facilities costs (rent, electric etc.) how can he train people? He would have to work his own job full time to pay the bills of the facility and to provide for his own family then in his spare time he would teach. No offense but that is just ridiculous, anyone who has dedicate their lives to teaching deserves to be able to make an income off of it. Why do colleges charge tuition? Because they have to PAY the teachers, they work hard and need to pay their own bills as well as the schools. Lets be realistic, there are not many MA schools out there getting rich off their students. (a few exceptions apply)

[sikal]

I don't know if this is perhaps cultural differences, but in the UK pretty much all the martial arts clubs are run by trainers who just want to get enough money to pay for the hall and the rest is spent on club nights out. Doing it for free.

Over in the UA, by the sounds of this thread, it's alot more capitalist?

For free? Sure, some people do it for free - always have and always will. But I think there's a (mistaken) perception that it was often taught for free throughout history.

Uchi Deshi (live in students) in Japan may not have had to pay a financial tuition (I don't know) but they certainly had to clean floors and do chores. This is a form of barter (though it has other, more esoteric purposes as well) and, therefore, the training wasn't "free."

In the Philippines & Indonesia it was common for students to bring rice or chickens or perform chores or maintenance around the instructor's house. Again ... a form of tuition payment.

I started programming computers when I was kid (taught myself BASIC on a Commodore Vic-20 when I was 9 years old). I did it purely for the enjoyment of doing it. I loved it. I still love it. But, you know what, it's a marketable skill and when people need something I can provide, I have no problem charging them for the time and effort I put into it. But I still do it for the love of it. I do it for myself and friends/family for free - just because I love it. But should I give it away to clients just because I love it? I think not.

What's the difference between teaching martial arts and programming computers? Or being a personal trainer at a gym? Or any other type of service people around the world provide - and charge for - every day?

As Guru Stevan Plinck phrases it, "I don't charge a dime for what I teach. It's impossible to put a price on it. But my time and effort while teaching *is* worth something and that's what I charge for."

How does charging for doing something take away from the love of doing it?

Mike

[eXcessiveForce]

while I know people who teach for free, and have benefited from people who do this, and I have on a small scale taught for free for a time, it is not the way of the world.

simply put my time is valuable. I am able to devote more time to my proficiency as an Martial artist as well as an instructor if I teach for a fee. What they get for this is the knowledge that every class period they will be taught. If I teach for free i'm not obligated to teach them anything. Nor do i need to concern myself with their understanding of the material. But when I charge I have an obligation to provide quality professional training.


I do not charge my junior instructors who help teach on a regular basis, but low ranks I do, because I do not benefit from showing them what I know and they are not at a level where I can train with them.

[Maxx]

I look at it in very simple terms... may of us have trained for years... have paid tuition at a school for years... possibly in some cases more than one school. There are people out there who are skilled in a variety of arts, some of them obscure or have never been seen before.

Regardless, it took many years and in some cases thousands of dollars to attain our skill levels. You should be paid for your time to teach that skill just as any college professor would.