How do independents get national/international standing?

[azusascuba]

Hi Guys

So the whole torrid story goes like this

1. I enter a training program to become a black belt in kickboxing.

2. I successfully complete the program to red Belt the belt before black belt.

3. The instructor is now refusing to complete my training for various "nonsensical" reasons. The two most important reasons being that I questioned his legal ability to instruct a recognized kickboxing course and the second that I did not want my dojo to be a franchise of his. This instructor is not a kick boxing master; his certification is only for Karate and Taekwondo, nothing specific to kick boxing. Actually IKSA refused to recognize me as an instructor upon completing my black belt because it would be unfair to my training Sensei.

4. I have found an ATA instructor to finish my training to black belt, but currently the accreditation organization I am looking to join for national and international standing is baulking at recognizing me for kick boxing because my final training is by a taekwondo instructor. Now of course this new ATA instructor is not rating me as an ATA black belt but only as having successfully completed the requirements to receive a black belt.

I am wondering is this the system of instruction that all instructors are utilizing in America…. It does not seem like anyone has true ability to start their own dojo upon completion of Black belt.

Looking for any advice relative to me finding an accreditation organization that will give my student national and international standing.

[Tom Yum]

I am wondering is this the system of instruction that all instructors are utilizing in America…. It does not seem like anyone has true ability to start their own dojo upon completion of Black belt.

Looking for any advice relative to me finding an accreditation organization that will give my student national and international standing.

Which country of origin did you train in and how are the accreditation rules different?

PS - kickboxing doesn't really have a belt system. The only belt you can earn is a title.

[azusascuba]

I hold a red sash in Kickboxing as accredidated by Independant Karate Schools of America.... Which in itself is weird that karate / taekwondo is teaching kick boxing!

As to title or a belt in the USA it seems they are letting karate schools involve themselves in kickboxing... not that I agree with this but this is the circumstances I find myself in....So Tom.... back to the question

Does anyone have an ideal how to get acredidated to teach kick boxing or which is the most reliable organization to use.... I am currently looking a AIKIA

[Scott Bolinger]

well what I did is modified my kata's for my art and done up my own kick boxing style. This was after studing ShotoKan karate for 17 years. I just didn't care to having someone of higher rank, holding me back on what I felt should be taut, or getting the ok to make any changes.

But, you can go , get your black belt, or go and get a certificate of training for Fitness and Nuetrition. Certifies ya as a personal training. Wright now you can get a usa boxing coaches license. That'll cover some on insurance.

[azusascuba]

Thank Scott

That is good advice if I had the time to learn Kata, but the karate / taekwondo instructor who taught me his own style of kick boxing didn't teach us kata and he refuses to complete my training to black belt. So now if I want a black belt in someone elses "kick boxing" I have to repeat their particular requirements ( which won't be accepted by anyone other than themselves...lol)
Karate will be just as time consuming and I will have to learn Kata... geez and as a kick boxer, the american kickboxing association won't accept my fight record.

So what I am doing is heading to Thailand and study Muay Sangha with Pedro Villalobo

It will be hard training, but within about a year I will be an accredidated instructor and be able to teach Muay Sangha.

On reflection it seems that my opinion of American martial arts is that it is a joke, if you intend to compete for fighting. Oh yes it is great for teaching children self confidence, but American martial arts really drops the ball when it comes to the adults who want to compete in a skill based competition.

It is purely a marketing concept devoid of any real intent to provide competition style events where your actually allowed to use the strikes and kicks you are taught in the Dojo, but than provided no real opportunity to compete with these strikes and kicks in competition.

Oh well thanks for the responce, glad you got your black belt and where able to develope your style, but what type of resiprosity do you offer anouther independant student coming to you for black belt? ? Do you require him or her to start at your white belt or do you accept their belt and train forward to your black belt rating?

You would be surprised just how many independants force experienced students to retake all their training over if the student comes to them with anything less than a black belt!

Oh well stepping off my soap box and packing my bags for Thailand September 2, 2008 to 31 August 2009

Respects

Azusa

[Scott Bolinger]

what ever belt you have achieved in any art, indicates, that’s the level of fighter you are. So any belt level you have would transfer. When you compete, that’s the level of competition you be under. If your in a striking art and your a black belt, you would still wear you black belt when training under me and would have a choice of testing for each level or testing straight to a black belt in my art. Most martial arts instructors do that. But not all. But I try and make it the easiest to be able to learn. I'm not saying the training is easy to do, allot of it will diffenatly challenge you. But I did write a 250 page book on my art and working on a second book, which i'm trying to get out by the end of the summer. But for my Katas, I just have 4 katas. Some arts seem to do a little over kill on that. When I studied Shotokan, there was aroun 28 kata's. I guess that’s all right, there has been allot of top fighters come out of shotokan practitioners. But it's just not my thing. And to me, a belt level is the competition level that you should be able to role with.

if American kickboxing association isn' going to accept your belt rank or your fight record, then challenge on of there fighters. Usually to be able to fight in a organization, start out fresh, they may request a 3 round video of a fight you have done, and that is usually acceptable. Prove yourself with a few bouts, before challenging into a top 10 fight. But one thing any fighter should do is make a fighters resume. That’s part of why I did up a pass book for martial artist and coaches. To help keep track of all your fights. And that includes smokers, point fighting, continuous point, kickboxing and MMA. Not keeping track of you fights, yeh, you can end up not being allowed to fight, whether it's from the organizational head or from the athletics commission.

if your gonna make a career out of fighting, you should keep track of all your fights and if your going to make a career out of officiating, then you'll have to do the same thing. Keeping a pass book on both would be a good idea. I got those on sale at Home .

But , if the AKA still won't let you compete, then don't waste your time with them. There are plenty of other kickboxing or karate organizations that you can fight in. Just to name a few, WACO , WASCO, ISKA , IKF just to name a few. And I know the IKF the last I looked ran about $50 to be part of that organization, but you may need to send them a video of one of your fights. So if your not in shape, train hard and tone up, then set yourself up with a 3 or 4 round fight. Might want to get to know a few promoters that can help ya out with that or your coach can be doing that.


But saying something as ignorant as American kickboxing being a joke. That's a insult to my art, the national champ that I coach, the ranking MMA students that I have coached, the many kickboxing world champions that came out of the USA. The biggest joke out there is the prejudice in the martial arts sport. And if you had a coach that was worth a dam, he or she wouldn't be teaching that prejudice. Alot of your new promoters, the ones with more of the MMA concept, usually don't have the prejudice. But alot of your so called traditinalist, teach to be closed minded of other arts, other ways of doing thing, thinking there way is the only way and are very prejudice against other styles, other arts and other styles of competititon.

Alot of your top fighters have learned from different styles and different coaches and what it comes down to it, is just bettering your own personal style. Learn what you can to better your fighting style and throw away the junk. Thats the only way to being a master and not a puppet.

[Scott Bolinger]

This promoters and owner of WASKO is out of Turkey, he runes many Muay Thai events all over. He'll gladly set you up with a fight. There's a world championship in Egypt August 27 to the 31st, you could probalby be set up with something during that time frame.

If your closer to the midwest, I have a different contact there.

WASKO HQ:

Esenboge Hava alani yolu 27 km. Buyuk Anadolu Hotel

Ankara TURKEY

Phone: +90 533 272 78 02

Mobil :: +90 533 218 86 43

E-posta: Wasko-@hotmail.com

Web: www.allmartialart.com

[Scott Bolinger]

there is also another way, just sign up in the IKF, I believe there site is at http://www.ikf.com.. goto there forums, talk alot of crap to the fighters there . usually the guys there are pretty cocky and love to argure, do that , and I got a guy in Iowa that'll set ya up a fight and I believe he will pay for travel. But, he also trains some of the top fighters in the nation.

[azusascuba]

Thanks for the advice

Scott

You have alot of good points and advice, and at least you only called me ignorant and not stupid...lol as ignorance is a state we can move to or away from, but if your stupid you just be stupid.

I take some of that advice when I return from Thailand, althought the Yurkey fight promoter might be doable in say three foor month.

Take care

Thank You again

Azusa