The Ground Game and Weapons

[bzarnett]

Several years ago I had my first viewing of grappling with sticks while in New Bedford, MA from a fellow named Tim (sorry, but I forgot Tim's last name) who among things, worked with the Dog Brothers. On and off for the last few years I have been working a bit with sticks and grappling but recently went into working weapons with grappling - both knives and sticks.

Its an interesting experience and grappling with knives is a unique experience.

Are other people working weapon work into there ground (and clinch) game?

One interesting drill I use is stopping draws from the clinch or ground. Both individual can have knives and sparodically someone will try to draw a knife while in the clinch or on the ground. I originally tried this with a workout partner who studies BJJ and when he went to draw the knife he lost his ground game - he could not multi-task. He had problems maintaining his ground game while applying the knife.

Burton, any chance of seeing any weapon grappling in the monthly training tapes?

Regards,
Bryan

[armlok]

Transitioning to a weapon would be hard to pull off when attacking or defending against an aggressive opponent. Opening a folder should be attempted once a position is solidified or space is created. For example, if you are rushed, knocked down and end up with opponent in the open-guard. You would be best served by creating space (kick him away) and then drawing pistol from duty belt, folder from pocket, etc.
Awareness and control will allow you to attack (strike or lock) during an attempted draw by your opponent.
Hope this makes sense, I'm kinda braindead right now.

[Jim McRae]

Bryan:

Great minds think alike. Here is an excerpt from a post I made on the instructor's forum a couple of weeks ago:

"Another thing that I am worried about besides fatigue in a street fight is the tendency most rednecks have to draw a weapon — usually a blade — when they start to loose hand-to-hand. To train for this eventuality, I like to practice the following drills:
Suit up in your typical sparring gear and stuff a folding training knife in your pocket or waistband (I'm a big fan of the Spyderco Endura trainer). Have your partner do the same. The round starts empty-handed, but if one guy starts getting his tail kicked, he can draw the folder and attack with it. This is great for building awareness of the physical cues a person gives when he goes for a weapon, and it's a great way to practice your disarms (or, if you're a fast draw, your knife sparring). You can alternatively give only one guy a knife. Here, the rule is the knife-carrier can only draw once he gets in a bad position, but the other guy can draw his opponent's blade at any time and use it against him. For guys like me who always carry a folder, having it drawn by your opponent and used against you is a real concern (not to mention a really stupid way to die). The folding trainers also work well for stick sparring — you start with sticks and can't go for the blade until you loose your stick or hit a clinch and get it tied up. Of course, you have to have training partners who don't mind getting poked with not-entirely-dull training blades... "

Take care and train hard,
Jim

[bzarnett]

I like that idea Jim, thanks for the repost. I have been trying to add at least one "weapon" drill into my mix of training in a context similar to what we have been discussing.

Since one of our core concepts is to presume a weapon, add this into out stand-up/clinch/ground games are very important. I like using smaller knives since the more common knife I might have will be a folder.

One variation to any knife drill I use is a seperation between the draw and the extension of the blade. Sometimes you might be able to draw the knife from where ever its located, but you might not be able to extend the blade (such as in a folder). What I add in every so often is the use of the butt of the knife versus the blade. Since the knives are not training folders themselves (does such a thing exist???) we put the knives somewhere blade down. When the draw first comes out its butt only and the individual has to flip the blade around to get at the sharp edge. Sometimes it comes write out to the blade and sometimes not.

In one occasion, we had a good amount of resistance going and on the draw (from the clinch) and when I went to flip the knife it went flying instead. The interesting part was that between my silent swearing, my opponent's vision went to the knife giving me an opening. :-)

One thing I am going to try working tonight is from the clinch to takedowns. I hope to be able to progress it to where a blade draw occurs on the takedown from either side causing a bit more environmental awareness to take place - having to be aware of the blade at all times!!

Regards,

B.

[Jim McRae]

"...Since the knives are not training folders themselves (does such a thing exist???)..."

Bryan:

The best training folders on the market are the Spyderco Endura trainer (4 inch blade) and the Spyderco Delica trainer (3 inch blade). These trainers are exact replicas of the regular Spyderco knives of the same names. They feature bright red handles for easy identification and blunted tips/edges for (relatively) safe training. They have a reversible clip (tip up carry) for pocket/waistband carry and the standard Spyderco hole for opening. The best place to get them is at www.knifecenter.com, where they run for about $40-50. I have one of the Endura trainers, and it was well worth the money. I spar with it regularly and it performs quite well. It has an AUS-8 stainless steel blade (about a 59 Rockwell hardness) and will actually dent aluminum training knives. My wife has a Delica trainer and she loves it.

Alternatively, you could try Emerson knives (www.emersonknives.com). They have some higher-end trainers, but they are not worth the extra money. I have a Commander trainer (an exact replica of my 1999 Commander), but it cost about $70 and is not much better than my much-cheaper Spyderco.

Benchmade knives just released a series of trainers for three knives: one is automatic, one is a liner-lock, and one is an axis-lock. I have not seen them for sale anywhere yet, but you can check them out at www.benchmade.com. Also, Edges2 (www.trainingblades.com) is currently developing a folding trainer which should be out soon.

Take care and train hard,
Jim

[Burton]

Great posts everybody. One word of caution! Remember that it you draw on a guy you have just taken down, you may be viewed as the aggressor since you may be perceived to be in control of the situation. Be sure that as you train with the knife, you are imagining a situation where drawing a weapon is justifiable.

I have seen Jim's Endura trainer and it looks great. I need to find the time to add more weaponry into our classes. There is so much to do!!!! If we rely too much on the blade, we may not get the positions down well. I will definitely share some of the techniques and training methods that have worked well for me on an upcoming video. Keep up the input. It all makes JKDU that much better!