Why is Western Boxing not considered to be a "True" Martial Art?

[Tom Yum]

Why, have people suddenly become invulnerable to punches to the head and torso? What's you reasoning behind saying that boxing no longer works?

through your iron body and head regiments, of course

[Jeremy Lobdell]

To Baguaboxer

First let me address jubaji or whtever your name was...if you are a martial "artists" and not a martial "hobbiest" then you would know that there are several ways to disarm an armed combatant even one with a rifle.

As for the marines using boxing in the past yes they did but as the person who posted this stated there was also training in wrestling and some dirty tricks thrown in..do you consider MMA boxing cause if you do then yes it would be effective but boxing and MMA are two diffrent animals so those ands are big diffs. I'm not knocking boxing I used to box...but battle field tactics have to progress or else you'll lose and boxing no longer works in todays battles.

With all due respect to you, have you ever actually been at the wrong end of an AK-47. There are people here, like myself and koto_ryu who have served our country, and come from very legitamite militay and martial arts backrounds. With that being said, if someone has a weapon pointed at your head and has the will to use it, all your fancy disarming techniques can pretty much go out the window. As you first stated, don't talk about things that you don't know. And while jubaji and I have disagreed in the past, he is the voice of reason when the politically correct bs gets a little too thick!

[BaguaBoxer]

although

I have the utmost respect for anyone who has served our country in combat and if anyone has found my posts desrespectful to the fighting people of our country then I am sorry they feel that way. As for an AK-47 in my face no I haven't as for a Nine Millimeter in my face yes a few times and I am still here and not by punk ass wanna be gangsters. I may not have served our country in uarmed combat but I have life expierence in situations where people where willing to kill me. I didn't grow up fancy I lived in the getto I got my ass beat I was threated. I sought out martial arts and fighting in general originally to protect myself from this kind of crap. My instructor has me as a closed door student and lets just say he has been in the thickest thick of it. Now I know a combat situation against a soldier is a little diffrent than a thug who's been in jail a couple of times for shooting the local bouncer aren't the same thing. But I have also been that local bouncer and had that thug on the other end of the gun ready to squeeze and if I hadn't had that disarming technique I wouldn't be typing now. I'm sorry that I tried to start a conversation of intelligence only to be pounced upon. I ve seen your posts Jeremy and you are a very well versed expierenced Warrior alot of what you say agrees with what I am taught by my instructor, but some people on the site feel belittling people is fun I am sorry for that.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Makes sense!

Thank you, Baguaboxer, for clarifying your position. And I understand your frustration at feeling that your posts are being singled out for riticule. Perhapse it has more to due with what you stated in your first post, than what your message was. You were recieving less than favorable comments from people who don't claim trolling as a profession.
As a whole, I feel that some of the most talented ma's in our community post here. It constantly suprises me how small of a world it truely is when you meet people on this forum that know people you train with and vice versa. And no, I didn't take your comments as any kind of statement against the military at all, and after facing the wrong end of a gun, (rifle, machine gun, handgun) more times than I care to remember and both in the military and civilian world, with all my training and practice and after years of reflection and thought, I realize that when you're dealing with reaction times and fractions of a second, the main determining factor comes down to dumb luck. But having gone thorugh enough first hand, I can also say with complete honesty, that the next guy who pulls a gun on me (hopefully there won't be a next guy) will die too, in the most painful and bloody way I can come up with.
Good luck in all your future endeavors,
Jeremy

[jubaji]

And while jubaji and I have disagreed in the past, he is the voice of reason when the politically correct bs gets a little too thick!

When I'm the voice of reason surely the apocalypse is upon us!

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Gut buster

When I'm the voice of reason surely the apocalypse is upon us!

LOL!
Thanks for the laugh, this thread was starting to get way to depressing!

[Ironpalm]

Hey BaquaBoxer, Hope you are training ironpalm with your bagua. If so, follow me here... You know that bag of rocks you punch, slap etc everyday? This thread is run by people who punch each other in the head like that as a sport or whatever. Just imagine trying to hold a conversation with anyone who does this on a regular basis. If people cannot appreciate that there are arts that are not sports, it just Makes us safer.. Why Explain the weapons in your arsenal ...Especially to those who already know it all anyway. In the martial world "todays aquantince, tommorows enemy" is a good maxim to remember. Its very hard to defend the weapon you dont know exists. Study every Fighting style you can find and be informed. Dont just conform to what the m-ASSES are doing to make Them comfortable, Train to keep you and yours safe.

[koto_ryu]

through your iron body and head regiments, of course

*snaps fingers* Knew I shouldn't have been sharing my secrets!

[koto_ryu]

You were recieving less than favorable comments from people who don't claim trolling as a profession.

Now if only Jubaji was getting paid for it

[jubaji]

Now if only Jubaji was getting paid for it

Who said I'm not?

[Jeremy Lobdell]

equal time

Who said I'm not?

.............................................................................

[BaguaBoxer]

nuff said

I think Ironpalm covered it. I would rather train in a art where I avoid being hit (mainly because studies have show that being hit is dangerous and damaging to the body) than one where I get beat so I can get better at being beat up so I can get beat up longer than the other guy and hope that I hit him harder or last longer than he does. 4 out of 5 doctors agree that repeated head shots cause mental problems. Now I would also like to say that boxers are some of the toughest SOB's I have come up against when it comes to pugilism and boxing has intricate foot work and techniques. In the ring boxing is limited in the street boxing may work for some people but from personal expierence its not for me. In retrospect I would like to rescind my comment that boxing is not a martial art. It is only a sport when you add rules and gloves like any "martial art" can become if tampered with. But if we don't evolve our art for all situations then we die with it.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Good point!

Very well said, Baguaboxer. I switched to a high intensity-contact mma style school more because of the oppertunity to train with and learn from someone I hold in great admiration after moving, then out of any disenchantment I had with more traditional systems. If it wasn't for my more traditional backround, I wouldn't be nearly as proficient in the purely fighting aspects as I am. There is a lot to be said for someone who takes up the task of trying to master a traditional system, whatever particular style that is, and being willing to speak up and stand up for what you believe in. Understanding that true mastery comes from a life time of dedication, and not just a few years of playing around in a school, is what I gather is the point you've been trying to make all along. For this, I hold you in very high regard! Your voice on this forum fills a void that is ever increasingly wide with all the mma and combined training that seems to be the fad in ma. It's long overdue that we as a community of ma's work to support our fellow ma's and look to learn from them as a source of new knowledge and understanding in an area that we may have not fully explored before. If I was so arrogant as to think that I had all the answers, I would just stop training and proclaim myself a GM right now, but that would only serve to enhance the problem, not solve it.
Mahalo, Jeremy

[BaguaBoxer]

thanks

Thank you Jeremy

[EmptyneSs]

I think Ironpalm covered it. I would rather train in a art where I avoid being hit (mainly because studies have show that being hit is dangerous and damaging to the body) than one where I get beat so I can get better at being beat up so I can get beat up longer than the other guy and hope that I hit him harder or last longer than he does. 4 out of 5 doctors agree that repeated head shots cause mental problems. Now I would also like to say that boxers are some of the toughest SOB's I have come up against when it comes to pugilism and boxing has intricate foot work and techniques. In the ring boxing is limited in the street boxing may work for some people but from personal expierence its not for me. In retrospect I would like to rescind my comment that boxing is not a martial art. It is only a sport when you add rules and gloves like any "martial art" can become if tampered with. But if we don't evolve our art for all situations then we die with it.

just cause u train in boxing doesnt mean u ur gonna get beat up and get head damage. when boxers train, they train with protective gear and generally spar light. its the competing boxers who fight harder, with no gear. if boxers got injured as much as u claim, they wouldnt be able to train properly for fights. yeah a boxer who steps in a ring to compete will get damage over the years, but then again so do alot of other athletes like football players. my boxing/kickboxing gym puts out awesome fighters, and we spar light with all the proper gear. we dont try and kill eachother, instead we work lighter and work on our speed and techniques and whatnot. the people who are training for upcoming fights train harder and spar harder, but even still, with protective headgear and other protective gear, the risks of injury are greatly minimized.