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Why is Western Boxing not considered to be a "True" Martial Art?

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  • #31
    Skill and ability

    Okay a few more things from my perspective, and I’m not trying to convert any one here. All art forms are valuable as long as they keep their integrity. That said a Martial Art is a War Art, and thus implies methods for killing your enemy in Combat. Therefore all training in said Martial Arts were centered on the weapons that a warrior used in battle. Thus empty hands techniques were secondary to weapon’s training IMO. To keep the warrior\soldier in tune to warfare\play, sports were invented. The word Kungfu does imply great skill, and that is why it’s is used universally for all Chinese fighting styles. There are far too many fighting styles in china to named them all. As well in most parts of the East and Far- East. Even though Europe is considered the west it’s in the east. Thus the impact of past war (ancient wars) can be seen in current fighting styles the similarity of techniques. A Master and his disciples would travel the land to create legend for themselves and their belief. So if hand techniques are taught first to the warrior then the style is hiding its weapon’s knowledge or it is lost. The early weapons of warfare are as follows: bow & arrow, staff\spear, javelin, rocks, and the sling are all projectiles, short staff, sword, mace, and whips are all midrange, knife and club are short range weapons. Okay not to make this too long we are born with an innate ability to tumble and play rough, thus wrestling, you hit be and I hit you back boxing (basic striking). What elevated this simple play in to MA? In one word Survival. Your skills would have to in crease to survive a violent attack, or to protect your love ones from harm Animal, Man, or Nature. So methods to improve this skill was created and pasted on to future warriors in a rite of passage. For those of you who are training in MA when it comes to self defense where does the fight start? Beyond arms reach or within arms reach. If the attacker had a weapon where would your defense start? Now look at the style or art form that you study in regards to stance, mobility, and counter fighting range where do you start? This will tell you what type of strategy your MA was designed for. This is not new, but it is apart of my philosophy shield and spear (short spear like javelin). The knife and the struggle to remove the weapon from your attacker's hand is the reason that MA training survives today. All other fighting methods are spawn from the warrior’s belief in his spiritual destiny. Thus he invokes the spirit of the fallen to aid him in his quest whether it is a god, beast, or ancestor. Now you see why there are so many styles remember my formula your skill * his skill = X (the winner being the first to dissolve his preconceived notions) IMO.
    Peace.

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    • #32
      A lot of good posts here. I think boxing is being more widely accepted as a "martial art" with the popularity of MMA. However, I think there is still a bias in the martial arts world against it because it doesn't use kicks. Many kickboxers and Thai Boxers today (in the west anyway) came from a karate or TKD background where they learned the value of kicks and they come to see boxing as not being a complete striking art.

      Also, I think there is a phenomenom where people tend to think things in other cultures are superior or mystical. For example, in the USA there has been a long tradition of believing that eastern martial arts have some mystical power.

      There is no doubt in my mind that boxing is a martial art with a rich history and many real world applications. I personally love boxing and its simplicity. Boxing intentionally foregoes a lot of techniques used in other striking arts for mastery of the punch and evasion. Foregoing kicks means wicked footwork and mobility. Using punches almost exclusively for striking means rapid chaining of strikes. The slip and duck are incredible defenses and are different from hard blocks in that slipping a strike throws an opponent off balance and makes them subject to destructive counterpunching. I'm studying a bit of MT simply to learn to check those mean low kicks, but boxing, wrestling, and BJJ are my martial arts, and they compliment each other perfectly and have incredible real world applications. Also, like I said in other posts, boxing (the original form) used a lot of "street fighting" techniques, such as headbutts and stomps and throws and slams.

      Boxing should not be underestimated as an effective means of self defense for times when you want to stay on your feet. Plus, boxing looks cool as sh*t!!

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      • #33
        boxing not martial

        The reason it is not considered a martial art is because "martial" means it can be used on a battle field or in a battle. Boxing is an organized "sport". I'm not trying to take away from it, but if you try to square off with someone in a pitched battle or box a guy with an ak-47 in your face, buddy your nuts crazy and screwed.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by BaguaBoxer
          The reason it is not considered a martial art is because "martial" means it can be used on a battle field or in a battle. Boxing is an organized "sport". I'm not trying to take away from it, but if you try to square off with someone in a pitched battle or box a guy with an ak-47 in your face, buddy your nuts crazy and screwed.

          And what works really well with the AK in your face?

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          • #35
            options

            Originally posted by jubaji
            And what works really well with the AK in your face?
            Death and, death and, no just death!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Jeremy Lobdell
              Death and, death and, no just death!
              Check.


              I'm gonna write that down so I don't forget.

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              • #37
                Funny

                Originally posted by jubaji
                Check.


                I'm gonna write that down so I don't forget.
                I just said it before you beat me to it.

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                • #38
                  ...............................


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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by BaguaBoxer
                    The reason it is not considered a martial art is because "martial" means it can be used on a battle field or in a battle. Boxing is an organized "sport". I'm not trying to take away from it, but if you try to square off with someone in a pitched battle or box a guy with an ak-47 in your face, buddy your nuts crazy and screwed.
                    Most soldiers and Marines trained back in the WWII era trained mostly in boxing and wrestling as their hand to hand skills, with a few dirty tricks thrown in for good measure. It was very effective then, so I doubt it would be any less useful nowadays.

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                    • #40
                      if someone who is not a poser and a real "martial artist" not a "martial hobbiest" could explain that there are ways to unarm a combatant with a rifle while you are unarmed feel free to educate him.

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                      • #41
                        boxing in war

                        First let me address jubaji or whtever your name was...if you are a martial "artists" and not a martial "hobbiest" then you would know that there are several ways to disarm an armed combatant even one with a rifle.

                        As for the marines using boxing in the past yes they did but as the person who posted this stated there was also training in wrestling and some dirty tricks thrown in..do you consider MMA boxing cause if you do then yes it would be effective but boxing and MMA are two diffrent animals so those ands are big diffs. I'm not knocking boxing I used to box...but battle field tactics have to progress or else you'll lose and boxing no longer works in todays battles.

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                        • #42
                          Do aho

                          Originally posted by BaguaBoxer
                          First let me address jubaji or whtever your name was...if you are a martial "artists" and not a martial "hobbiest" then you would know that there are several ways to disarm an armed combatant even one with a rifle.

                          Here we go...

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                          • #43
                            boxing owns and its better than most arts.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by BaguaBoxer
                              First let me address jubaji or whtever your name was...if you are a martial "artists" and not a martial "hobbiest" then you would know that there are several ways to disarm an armed combatant even one with a rifle.

                              As for the marines using boxing in the past yes they did but as the person who posted this stated there was also training in wrestling and some dirty tricks thrown in..do you consider MMA boxing cause if you do then yes it would be effective but boxing and MMA are two diffrent animals so those ands are big diffs. I'm not knocking boxing I used to box...but battle field tactics have to progress or else you'll lose and boxing no longer works in todays battles.
                              Why, have people suddenly become invulnerable to punches to the head and torso? What's you reasoning behind saying that boxing no longer works?

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by koto_ryu
                                Why, have people suddenly become invulnerable to punches to the head and torso? What's you reasoning behind saying that boxing no longer works?
                                dont worry about bagua, he obviously doesnt know jack shit about what he is talking about. uh yeah bagua, ur right, boxing isnt good since u cant beat people with aka 47's and other automatic assault weapons with it.

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