Upright Fist in Boxing

[Juicefree]

As a keen student of western boxing I've always had a lot of time for Jack Dempsey's book "Championship Fighting". In it Jack states that punch's, certainly to the head, should be thrown with the fist in an upright position, both for the lead and the cross. To my understanding this is also the JKD or WC style.

When I watch footage of current boxers not all punch to this form, some use a downwards facing fist when they strike. Also, most coach's teach punching with the fist horizontal, palm down effectively.

What are people's thoughts on this Forum ? Upright fist when punching as opposed to palm down ?

Thanks for your thoughts.

[xploit]

I have been taught to punch a jab and right straight with my hand upright, as if holding a can of soda. The reason for this is mainly that if you throw a jab or right straight with your hand sideways, your elbow sticks out to the side so your opponent can see it coming. Conversely, if your fist is upright your elbow does not stick out at all and it is very hard to see the shots coming in time.

I always have people tell me my jab is crazy because of doing this. If you can hide the jab coming and also side step to the left as you are jabbing you are going to catch a lot of people.

[chalambok]

I too was always taught to throw the right cross with the palm down. But recently I was up late and just happened to turn on the classic boxing station. Round 6 through 12 of Ali-Frasier II, in 1974, I believe. The first thing I noticed was that Ali threw all his right crosses with a vertical fist. I wasn't sure why, speculating maybe it was so he could get through Smokin' Joe's guard easier. I related this to a friend, and he speculates this is because, at that time, Ali had been training a lot with Master Jhoon Rhee. I don't know. But I do know Ali won the fight.

[3mptin3ss]

the palm down method allows you to punch without needing to fully lock out your elbow, saving the joint a lot of stress. i think you can also get more power out of palm down punches because it lets you put more hip and body power behind your punches.

[Juicefree]

Thanks Mike and 3mptin3ss for great replies, exactly the help I was looking for.

Interesting final comment 3mptin3ss. I suffer with slight tennis elbow in my lead arm, which is mainly down to surfing, but also I notice after boxing sessions it seems to be worse. Maybe this could be the explantion ?

Cheers.

[Piston]

Turning your fist upright tense up your bicep allowing you to utilise your muscular power to its full potential, additional to your hip and shoulder power. If you hold your fist horizontal you can employ your knuckles to concentrate your strike. So its a trade off either way, but with a boxing glove on I would go vertical.

[Hardball]

Yep, he's right!!!

[Piston]

Fair enough, can't argue against a voice of experience. This technique was taught to me when I attended a boxing seminar with Herol "Bomber" Graham a commonwealth champion. I questioned it too, it just feels...sticky, no flow to it and the tensed bicep thing seems entirely contrary that when fighting one should not be tense in order to maintain speed.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention he said to use the vertical fist for jabs and hooks only. If that makes any difference.

[Piston]

Heh, I supposed I should've mentioned that really. My bad. I would certainly never throw a straight vertically, that just feels horrible.

[Wai Yeung]

try this urself

when you hold ur arm in an upright position the arm is harder to pull down, on the other hand when you put your palm down the arm is much easier to pull down.

-wing tsun philosophy

[Wai Yeung]

But the purpose of a punch is not to be hard to pull downward. It is to deliver impact forward.

There are many biomechanical tricks and truths like the one you mentioned. Few have any relevance when it comes to punching power.

Yes I agree with you, but I think i forgot to mention is the fact if it is harder to pull down it would increase your chance is pulling away from a grab.

And I personally prefer the upright punch because i feel my arm is in a more of a natural state.

just a preference i guess Thanks Brewer for your comment

[Juicefree]

Thanks for the advice all, keep it coming.

There does seem to be a lot of pro's and con's to both. Is it the case that the preferred style could be affected by the situation ? A street-based situation as opposed to western boxing ?

My original question was related to my boxing training however we could open this to street-related situations too ?

Cheers.