Mayweather vs DelaHoya

[Hardball]

If that were true, Antonio Tarver would have beaten Bernard Hopkins. There are plenty of other examples, but I think you get the point.

You are so right. Randy Couture being the most recent example.

[Hardball]

But as was the case with Baldomir and several others, Floyd tends to play it safe and do "just enough." I can't fault him for winning, but it is not inspiring boxing to me.

It is sometimes like a Chess Match. You know you are ahead on points and you don't want to make a blunder. I think It's Floyds Arrogance that turns people off.

[white devil]

just for thoses who woud care..



223-5

84-6




















Thoses are both fighters amateur record...Delahoya being the one on top...and the one carrying a gold medal..he ain't that much of an underdog is he.

Anyways...Whoever wins, the fight will be legendary.

[Hardball]

Not to mention the EIGHT title belts De La Hoya has earned in his career. He's an awesome fighter, but I think people are worried he may be getting a little long in the tooth for Floyd.

Floyd's arrogance isn't necessarily what turns me off. Plenty of fighters are arrogant, and you get past it. What leaves a bad taste in my mouth about Floyd is the idea that he'd play it safe and worry about making blunders even when he's got a guy completely outclassed. He's generally so careful not to "make a blunder" that it makes me think he's really afraid of a tough, hard fight. How will his ego treat him if he has to come from behind? What will happen if a guy can get ahead on the scorecards? Will "careful Floyd" find what it takes to really go after a guy and not worry about getting hit? Or will he try to flash and show his way out of trouble? No one's been good enough to put him there yet, so it's still a question mark - and that alone is worthy of note when talking about Floyd's huge level of talent. However, I see a guy who has a ton of skill but has yet to prove to me that he can be a warrior when he has to be.

Maybe he's not a warrior. Lots of guys view boxing as a sport and a game. Something just to make big time cash.

[white devil]

we're being very selfish towards world class boxers (we being us the fans and other martial artists..)well of course we have the right to be,we pay to be entertained..

but everyone must remember that thoses guys put their life on the line in every fight(no matter how ''careful'' youre being,one dangerous hit WILL affect the rest of your life) remember sonny liston,duk sook kim (prolly mispelled)..anyway even the great Ali is scarred forever

everyone here probably knows it,but as a boxer..money does come before the glory and the legacy ..fights r meant to be sold..i GUESS I understand how mayweather likes to play it safe,yet talk like he doesnt.



disapointed as a huge boxing fan,but i understand him as a ''boxer''.(yea i wish i had 1/100 of what thoses have)


sorry bout my english (this shoud be my sig)

[Uke]

Uke,
I hope deeply, and in my heart of hearts that Oscar beats the daylights out of Floyd. I really hope he knocks him out, through the ropes, and breaks his jaw in about six places. I have said it before, and I don't mind repeating. I don't like Floyd Mayweather as a person, and I don't like the fact that a guy with that much talent, ability, and skill would fight in the relatively lackluster style he has so often fought. When I see a guy that outclasses opponents as easily as Floyd so often does, I want to see things like the clinics Roy Jones Jr. used to put on! I want to see a human highlight film! But as was the case with Baldomir and several others, Floyd tends to play it safe and do "just enough." I can't fault him for winning, but it is not inspiring boxing to me.

With all that said, I'd probably have to put my money on Floyd. Oscar has a chance, and a good one. But what I hope to see is Floyd being forced to get out of "just enough" mode and keep pace with a guy who wants to (and can) beat him. I hope that facing Oscar will make Floyd into a boxer I can appreciate watching.

In summation:
Heartfelt favorite: Oscar, no doubt.
If I were betting on the fight: Floyd, begrudgingly.

As much as I think Mayweather is an all time great and a elite fighter, he's no Roy Jones Jr. You want to see Mayweather be something that he's clearly not.

Mayweather may be leaps and bounds above the talent he faces, but he never seems as bored as Roy did at the top of his game. Roy could literally hold a press conference while beating up his opponents. Mayweather is in every fight. Even the Gatti fight you could see that he was focused.

Mayweather is what I've said before: A defensive phenom that can stand toe to toe with the best and make them miss while he counters. He's a great talent who wins his own way. Mayweather doesn't possess the power that Jones did, and he certainly doesn't possess the speed.

He is, however, better than most. If he does lose, it means he had to come all the way up to welterweight to do it. DLH isn't half the boxer Mayweather is. He's successful due mostly to the the gift decisions he's received. If DLH wins, it does NOTHING for boxing.

Some may dislike Mayweather for whatever reasons that they have, but the truth is he's the best thing for boxing right now. A lot of people don't even realize that they're watching history in the making.

Very few liked the great ones while they were making greatness. So ... oh well.

[white devil]

he certainly doesn't possess the speed

please list a few fighters that are actually faster (no past/dead champions and nobody below bantamweight)

[Uke]

please list a few fighters that are actually faster (no past/dead champions and nobody below bantamweight)

I'm not sure why you would have me do that. Explain why first.

[white devil]

you made good point about mayweather being in everyfight and giving all he's got...but HE's certainly the fastest fighter around..

what do you mean he doesnt possess the speed?who is faster than mayweather?

[Uke]

No, he isn't. He isn't faster than Zab Judah or Shane Mosley. Mayweather is gifted with speed but he's not at the level of truly speedy fighters like Roy Jones, Meldrick Taylor(past), Joshua Clottey, Zab Judah or Shane Mosley.

Those fighters are known for their blazing speed. Mayweather is known for being an awesome defensive force that can slip, smother and parry punches all day long. Mayweather may be faster than his opponents who were never known for their speed, but he isn't what I'd call a speedy fighter.

If you watch his fight against Zab Judah, Judah won the first 5 rounds easily due to SPEED. Judah was the faster fighter. I believe that Judah was the harder hitting fighter as well as he truly knocked Mayweather down but it was waved off. Zab Judah just seems to fall apart after 5 or 6 rounds in every fight and that's what happened there.

Saying that Mayweather is faster than Diego Corrales or Arturo Gatti doesn't mean that he's among the fastest punchers. It means that he has the advantage in terms of speed among his opponents.

When you watch Mayweather dominate, its because it completely shuts down his opponent's offense with footwork, head movement, and shoulder rolls and smothering punches. His fastest punch is his jab, which he establishes well in the beginning. Then after he makes you miss and frustrates you, he brings it in close, letting you think that you have a chance because he isn't running. Then he uses TIMING, not SPEED to take guys apart on the inside.

You'd be suprised at how many people don't know the difference between timing and speed, but there is a difference. When Roy Jones delivered 7 consecutive left hooks to a man's head ... that was speed. When he put his gloves behind his back and then knocked out Glenn Kelly ... that was speed. When Roy Jones ducked a punch at the last second and deliver a punch to Virgil Hill's ribs and KO'd him ... now that was timing.

[Uke]

Well actually Mike, I wasn't debating the like-ability of Mayweather with you. We've been there and done that already, haven't we?

What I attempted to discuss was the fact that you wrote that you'd like to see Mayweather put on boxing clinics like RJJ, to which I replied that its very possibly and likely that Mayweather can't. Even against C fighters like Jesus Chavez, Mayweather had him totally outclassed but wasn't powerful enough to put Chavez away. Roy has been powerful enough to beat nearly all of his opponents until the end of his career.

DLH has come up through divisions and fought great fights, Mike Brewer. But its no secret among boxing fans that nearly every time that he faced really big challenges he lost, yet won through gift decisions.

When he fought Pernell Whitaker, he lost that fight according to the fans and other boxers.

When he fought Ike Quartey, DLH got outboxed for the first 8 rounds, yet he got the decision. I'd suggest you watch the fight.

When DLH fought Trinidad, he had him beat but ran a track meet for the last 5 rounds. He lost and rightfully so for his cowardice.

When he fought Felix Sturm, he not only lost, but was embarrassed by the little known German in route to his fight with Hopkins. Did you hear the boo's from the crowd as the obvious gift decision was announced?

Yes, DLH has done much in his career, but let's not pretend that his legacy is built upon his boxing prowess. Its built upon the fact that he is the biggest draw since Mike Tyson and he sells tickets and PPV shares. I don't expect 95% of the people on this site to know that Mike Brewer, but I do expect a bit more boxing insight from you. A boxer's record isn't always a reflection of how good or bad he was. Its up to boxing historians and dedicated fans to know the difference.

Had the gift decision DLH had been awarded been called the correct way, he wouldn't be held in such high regard. He knows this and this is why he broke off and started his own company. He knows that he's the Golden Boy, held in high regard, and that the latino community which makes up for more than 60% of ticket and PPV sales will come out to support his endeavors.

Its business, Mike Brewer. And knowing that you're around it and a fan of it, it surprises me to hear you speak of DLH as if all his accolades were earned in the ring.

If anything, a loud mouth, materialistic punk is what saved boxing 20 years ago when Mike Tyson came on the scene. And until this day no boxer, not Roy Jones, Oscar DelaHoya or Floyd Mayweather has exceeded Mike Tyson's ability to sell tickets or PPV's. Controversy equals interest, and the public has shown that they will pay. Even when Tyson was just a shell of his former greatness, people bought more of his PPV's than DLH's.

So what does that tell you?

Another loud mouth, so-called punk is considered by some as the greatest of all time. His name was Cassius Clay later known as Muhammad Ali. No one talked more shit than Ali, and I remember you saying that you loved the guy. He was a so-called draft dodger. An unpatriotic citizen. A Muslim who put Allah before the United States.

Jack Johnson was widely hated by America because he was a flashy Black boxer who dated white women. He was thrown in jail for dating a white women. He was slandered throughout American newspapers as they attempted to strip his title away.

Liking one and not the other is a contradiction when they are all cut from the same cloth. All of them were born poor. They all took up boxing. They all were phenomenal talents. I guess you just feel that you get to pick and choose who is great and who isn't. I guess we're lucky that you opinion is just well ... your opinion.

Thankfully all of these men are Hall of Famers, ranked highly on the best ever lists.

So Floyd will carry on the tradition of other great boxers of being hated by the partisan crowd, but being one of the best that ever did it and will do it.


Lastly, if you remove the gift decisions from DLH's career, and observe the losses he's had, his resume doesn't look that impressive. Actually put that way, DLH would have lost every significant challenge he's had with the exception of Fernando Vargas, Julio Cesar Chavez and Genaro Hernandez.

I don't like DLH for those reasons. He'll never be a Julio Cesar Chavez. IMO, he's not even as proven as Marco Antonio Barrera.

[Uke]

I think that's what the sport needs. Not another Neon Deion Sanders wannabe whose primary concern is bling and rims.

Primary concern? Do you know that the popular consensus is that Floyd Mayweather is probably the hardest training current boxer? Did you know that he trains for 20 rounders? Did you know that he does not drink, do drugs or smoke? Did you know that he gives to charity and on his free time goes and speaks to underprivileged youth, explaining to them that hard work and perseverance is his key to success?

I was fine when it was just about Mayweather not using his killer instinct to close the show. But now that its about bling, it makes it more clear.

When Don King makes more poor men millionaires than the lottery, he's called a crook. When Bob Arum does it, he's a boxing business genius.

When Floyd Mayweather wears fur coats and a gold chain he's a self absorbed thug. When Liberace plays diamond studded pianos and jewel laced clothing, he's an "eccentric" virtuoso.

When Floyd Mayweather fought Arturo Gatti, that's as close as we've come to a segregated crowd in recent years since Holmes vs Cooney. But even though Gatti has fought people in the street, beaten up his girlfriend and been arrested on drug charges, a large portion of boxing fans still rooted for Gatti. I wonder if they rooted for Gatti because he wasn't about "bling" and he represented what boxing needed? Tons of idiots picked Gatti to win, and talked shit up until the fight actually happened. And we all know what happened. I remember the look on their faces ... wishing ... hoping that Gatti could just land something that would give them a reason to talk shit.

There may be a hundred reason why not to like Floyd, but what he wears or buys shouldn't be one of them.

But as I stated earlier, it doesn't matter what we think. People said all this same shit about Roy Jones, Mike Tyson, Muhammad Ali, Ray Robinson, and Jack Johnson. And they are remembered as the best ever.

Even America's favorite colored boxer Joe Louis was only celebrated for a week after he defeated Hitler's hand picked pawn. After the cheering died down, Louis went back to being a second class citizen who had to enter buildings through the rear entrance. He died broke and bitter because the country he fought for, in the ring and on the battlefield, used taxes to force him out of retirement so that a less "blingy" American could defeat him and give America what it wanted all along.

I personally LOVE the blingy, outspoken, loud mouthed, ass kicking boxers who can back it up. I LOVE the fact that they came from nothing to achieve wealth and fame. I LOVE the fact that they won't let the same people who would have made them use the rear entrance dictate to them how they should dress, talk and behave.

[Uke]

All my criticism about DLH had to do with boxing. Every single bit of it. I feel as though your original comments concerning Mayweather were just and fair when you said he didn't go for the kill and lacks the will to be a strong finisher. But don't come around here talking about bling and rims and shit and not expect to get checked about it. Simple as that. To criticize him because of his style of dress or because he can afford things that we can't is a weak ass move to introduce into a boxing conversation.

Call me preachy or playing a race card, but your comments were stupid and reminiscent of past sour grapes that have been thrown at boxing's greatest champions. You don't smear a man's character when he isn't breaking the law or teaching our children anything wrong. As I pointed out, Mayweather doesn't smoke, drink or do drugs. He tells kids that the key is hard work and determination. Yet you challenge his convictions and call him a loud mouth? Floyd isn't even half the mouth that Roy Jones and Ali were, yet you call them great and count yourself among their fanbase!

Everything was fine until you got it in your big head that you could call DLH better for boxing because he fit your image of how you think boxers should conduct themselves. My comment about DLH winning would do nothing for boxing had to do with Floyd's winning streak and the controversy he brings to attempt to sell fights. DLH is a promoter first and a fighter second, and his winning at this point would only serve to take what little electricity boxing has away.

Just so you know, I don't agree with the materialistic attitude that bling is associated with either. But I disagree with the message, not people who dress and wear jewels. For you to call Floyd Mayweather the things you have based on his taste in jewels, cars and clothing you must be half a moron.

Let's look at the comments you've used when describing Mayweather based on his material assets also know as bling.

"a loudmouth, materialistic punk"

"Floyd is a boxer who wants to be a pimp"

"I think that's what the sport needs. Not another Neon Deion Sanders wannabe whose primary concern is bling and rims."

You judge Floyd Mayweather by his attire and his jewelry? That's rich. Its the same attitude from the guys who banned touchdown celebrations and put into effect a dress code for NBA players. Like I said above, its just more sour grapes from the good ole boys who want things to stay the same. I don't think you're a bigot, Mike. Well, not on purpose anyway.

And by the way, what makes you think that I'm playing a race card? Whoever said that I was Black??? You know, there are a lot of White people who don't feel the need to cover up or deny the past in order to become better people for today.

[Uke]

Either way, I doubt he gives a warm squirt of pee what anyone here says about him one way or another.

You got that right. I'm sure most rich and famous people are the same way.

[Uke]

Uke, what's with all the insults? We were having a civilized discussion, and now you have to go off and call me stupid and arrogant because I think a De La Hoya is better for boxing? Please get the attitude in check.

I like De La Hoya more than Mayweather. Big deal? I think De La Hoya's attitude, manner, and out-of-the-ring behavior send positive messages which I believe to be good for the sport. Why does that make me stupid and arrogant? And as for the things I said about Floyd? My opinions, based on countless press conferences and interviews where he talked about the size of his diamonds and the price of his fur coats. I find that distasteful from someone who is a champion, and I prefer to see someone that can be a little humble in strength. That's just me.

We can disagree, Uke, as always. But seriously, please don't become the guy who starts insulting me because I don't like your fighter. You're not having a discussion when you do that.

I had no problem with you liking DLH more than Mayweather. That was the point. What I did have a problem with is the fact that you used Mayweather's taste in clothing and cars to say that he's a punk, a loudmouth, materialistic and a wannabe pimp. There was no reason to attack his character.

My other point was that the greatest boxers in history have all endured similar scrutiny, and this was highly reminiscent of past sour grapes thrown at those champions.

I am not offended by the fact that you don't like Mayweather, Mike Brewer. I am offended by the fact that you couldn't criticize his skills, so you had to go after his style and culture. The "bling" that you so casually commented on came of as a bit smug and judgemental. And the other statement that I pointed out that made no sense was when you called Mayweather a loud mouth, as if it were something that turned you off. We both know that's not true because two of your favorite boxers are the biggest loudmouths in boxing history: Ali and RJJ.

When I wrote that Mayweather is better for boxing, I wrote that for BOXING REASONS, not because of DLH's personal life or choices. Mayweather is the hottest boxer out now and the most gifted. Undefeated. Extraordinary displays of skill. And is the only boxer since Roy Jones to make his matches look so easy. I didn't have to talk about DLH's rumored wife beatings or other details to make him seem any less good for boxing. Just the fact that he's lost a lot more than his official record reflects.

IMO, that's not good for boxing. A guy who's entire perceived greatness is predicated upon matches that he actually lost, but won because of the bankrupt scoring system and crooked judges. IMO, that's encouraging more scandal and corruption in the sport. Trust me, if DLH didn't have the marketable looks, he wouldn't be as successful as he is. He's got the largest fan base(latino), and because of that he commands respect due to being a huge draw. Were it not for his looks, he wouldn't be the star he is because there were much better latino boxers out there. My favorite latino boxer of this last era was Ricardo Lopez, who was 10 times the boxer than DLH is.

I still feel that your attitude is the same attitude from the guys who banned touchdown celebrations and put into effect a dress code for NBA players. Once upon a time slam dunks were illegal, but when the NBA powers that be realized that slam dunks sold tickets they made it legal. It amazes me how organizations like the NBA and NFL attempt to suppress any facet of individuality or culture unless it proves to be money making commodity.

I can see how you felt that I insulted you, even though I thought I was more playfully telling you that you were a knucklehead for making those comments. No worries. I apologize.