Boxing vs. Asian Martial Arts

[grubbogoppoly]

Jack. .Same is said with anything. I was talking about just standing in one place and throwing ONE JAB not in combination. The reason I was talking about that was they were talking like joint locks don't work. There reasoning was they stood there and tried to do 1 joint lock without anything else being used while the other person tensed up. I was simply saying that this is true with anything, they have to be used in combination and with movement for practical app.
In addition, you can do a lot with anything if the other person isn't used to it. THe first time fighting did you do good? No, because you weren't used to it yet.

[grubbogoppoly]

Most the people you know. .
There are a lot of mcdojos as someone put it earlier. That is probably all they were doing. Probably do that light contact sparring all the time(which does have its place, but not all the time)We do EVERY type of fighting in our art. So if you are standing up you can deal with it, if you are unlucky enough to go to the ground in the street you can deal with it. If you are close you can deal, if you are far you can deal. It is all about having tools. If you don't have the tools you can't deal. Each tool has a time and a place. You aren't going to throw an elbow from 3 feet away.

[Jack Johnson]

you can do a lot with a jab if the one on the receiving end isn't used to it circle away from them and throw it when they step in catch them in mid step when they only have one foot on the ground

[Jack Johnson]

most of the people i've encountered who been doing several years of jump kicks and hip punchs usally telegraph their blows

[grubbogoppoly]

Just a small addition. To make the point more clear.
If you practice the jab on its own, will it work?
NO. That is what you were doing with your joint lock.

[grubbogoppoly]

Nice addition to try and make it more than just an insult. Now I will tell you you were working on one technique, the cardinal sin in practical app. They make themselves rigid and you use it against them. This may be moving into another lock, this may be just punching them in the face because they are tense and concentrated on the hand. It is all about fluidity. ANY technique will work if done with proper timing, distance, and speed. I am not saying this out of theory I am saying this out of experience. I personally am not completely efficient yet. But it simply takes time. Like I said joint locks are not THE WAY. It is the ends not the mean.

[grubbogoppoly]

I love it. Just keep on proving your ignorance.

[Thai Bri]

Originally posted by grubbogoppoly
Thai:
" rather think that I could kick you and you instructor's arses both at once, and the only worry I would have are the legal ramifications."
The first sign that you aren't a real martial artist. Yawn, frankly I could care less whether or not you could.

Obviously you couldn't care less, or you wouldn't waste your time on Hwa Rang Crap.

I remember my first real taste of Combatives. It was with a guy called Dennis Martin. He got us all merrily wrist locking each other, and we were all dutifully going "ouch" in the right places. But I was one of a number of disappointed people.,wondering if I'd wandered into the wrong class.

Then he said "OK guys. Now I want the person who is being wrist locked to hold yourself rigid. Don't let him apply it". No one, including guys with all kinds of martial arts experience, could apply a lock, and that was against mere stationary and passive resistance.

Then we got to the real stuff. Brutal and basic strikes that you had a chance of applying if and when you were totally terrified and your life depended on them.

You're in martial arts theory and bullshit land. I've been there myself. But I knew enough to look outside the box. I'm 40 years old (nearly), and a far more formidable fighter than I have ever been in my life.

You need to learn that facts are often very different to theories.

[grubbogoppoly]

Ryan, I get the feeling you are just trying to argue for the sake of arguing. Your first and last statements contradict themselves. To the baseball example it was just an example. You get the point. There are things that EVERYONE you know can not do and they can be done.
"Pissed off, yes. Able to do something right at that moment,no." Same if you break a fugging wrist.

[grubbogoppoly]

Thai:
" rather think that I could kick you and you instructor's arses both at once, and the only worry I would have are the legal ramifications."
The first sign that you aren't a real martial artist. Yawn, frankly I could care less whether or not you could.

[Thai Bri]

Originally posted by grubbogoppoly
Thai. .your profile shows you have studied nothing. I don't know why you are even here. .and isn't this a forum. As in you talk about theories, ideas, concepts and events?

If you read my posts again you'll see that I was being polite and thought provoking. But you weren't capable of even considering the possibility that you may be even slightly in the wrong.

I don't know what my profile says, and couldn't care less. The long term regulars here know my many and varied experiences in over 20 years of martial arts and a life time of real fighting.

I rather think that I could kick you and you instructor's arses both at once, and the only worry I would have are the legal ramifications.

ps - Don't forget basic grammar. You'll get more respect and appear half educated.

[ryanhall]

Actually, Bri Thai is a cop. I think he has a handle on what works and what doesn't, as do I.

Well, earlier you made it sound like you had never gotten in a fight

I don't recall insinuating this or stating it outright. It's incorrect.

Nobody you know has probably been able to hit a baseball 400 ft. Does that mean it can't be done?

Funny that you mention this. I CAN hit a baseball 400 ft. I have done it on a couple of occasions. For the first 18 years of my life, baseball was what I practiced 3 hours a day everyday.

if you TRULY understand the technique then it will just happen out of response

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect. I recommend that you take the time to look into the work of some notables such as Sanford Strong, Tony Blauer, Rich Dimitri, and Sammy Franco if you are interested in better understanding self-defense.

You don't think he will be pissed off if you hit him in the face???

Pissed off, yes. Able to do something right at that moment, no.

You are saying that you have never encountered a beligerant drunk or someone who simply WAS GOING TO FIGHT WITH YOU no matter what you did?

Yes, I have. In these cases, I either leave or deal with them in a way that precludes their ability to hurt me.

We have several police officers in our classes who have put them to use

Cops are not civilians. Their job has use of force issues, and people will allow a cop to lay his/her hands on them without pistoning his/her face. This is not often so for a normal citizen.

Nobody with a lot of real world experience advocates the use of joint locks as a method of self-defense. Just food for thought.

[grubbogoppoly]

Just so you know mad max. Hwa rang do contains all of the kicks, knees and elbows that muay thai uses.

[grubbogoppoly]

Thai. .your profile shows you have studied nothing. I don't know why you are even here. .and isn't this a forum. As in you talk about theories, ideas, concepts and events?

[grubbogoppoly]

1) They are very fine motor skills. As such, my ability to apply them will decrease SEVERELY under the stress of a violent situation.
2) Since I don't make a habit of getting into it with drunk relatives and I'm not a bouncer, I don't have any reason for using tactics that low on the use of force scale.
3) Strength, flexibility, and pain tolerance can negate them very easily.
4) They are hard to apply, period.
5) I am putting both of my hands on one of his. This means that, if he is quick, he can hit me before I can defend myself.
6) Applying a wrist lock on a resisting opponent, even a small one, is very difficult without softening them up with a low of strikes.
7) Nobody has ever been able to joint lock me when I was trying to take their head off. Nor have I been able to do it to them.
8) I will have one pissed off dude on the other end of the lock (if I am able to get it), and I have to let him go sometime.

Just trying to give you something to think about. .First your two most important ones.
1) They are very fine motor skills. As such, my ability to apply them will decrease SEVERELY under the stress of a violent situation.
Yes it is a very fine motor skill and that is why it takes LOTS of practice. As to the stress response, if you TRULY understand the technique then it will just happen out of response. Second if you understand the technique and feel you can deal with anything that they throw at you then you can deal with the stress of a situation more easily.

8) I will have one pissed off dude on the other end of the lock (if I am able to get it), and I have to let him go sometime.
You don't think he will be pissed off if you hit him in the face???

Now to some of the other points.
2) Since I don't make a habit of getting into it with drunk relatives and I'm not a bouncer, I don't have any reason for using tactics that low on the use of force scale.

You are saying that you have never encountered a beligerant drunk or someone who simply WAS GOING TO FIGHT WITH YOU no matter what you did? Even if that is the case. .You think that a broken wrist is low on the pain scale? If so then I would hate to know what you think actually hurts. If you break a guys wrist then he also can't use this, one less thing you have to worry about.

3) Strength, flexibility, and pain tolerance can negate them very easily.
Yes there are some people(very very few, but they are out there. My nickname is gumby). Those that are very flexible strong or have high pain tolerance are the ones that joint locks would probably be necessary to use. You think hitting or kicking will be better than breaking a wrist. Even if they can tolerate the pain, they can't hit you and that is a definite plus.
4) They are hard to apply, period
If you don't put in the practice time. Everything takes time. The first time you sparred were you any good? No, it just takes time. They are put to use (people in my classes, including the lower belts talk about what has been effective for them on the street. It is of course normally the simplest one.). We have several police officers in our classes who have put them to use.
5) I am putting both of my hands on one of his. This means that, if he is quick, he can hit me before I can defend myself.
This would be a valid point if you HAD to use both hands to do them. You don't by the way. But, for arguments sake. If that is the only way that you can do them. Again these techniques are just like anything else you do it and it works or you do it and it doesn't. That is one of the concepts that you must understand. You might not get the technique perfect, if not then just move right into something else, whether it be a punch, block kick or etc. It is all about fluidity of motion. If you throw a punch and leave it out there of course it won't work. Same thing with joint locks. If you throw a punch out there and miss no big deal you pull it back and follow up or defend.
6) Applying a wrist lock on a resisting opponent, even a small one, is very difficult without softening them up with a low of strikes.
In boxing is any one punch on its own good against a resisting opponent. I think that is the best way to respond to that one. There is no one technique. Joint locks are just one tool in your arsenal. If the technique is there then you use it, if not then you don't force it. Everything has to work in unison not on its own.
7) Nobody has ever been able to joint lock me when I was trying to take their head off. Nor have I been able to do it to them.
Well, earlier you made it sound like you had never gotten in a fight. So this is just a MINUTE sample. Nobody you know has probably been able to hit a baseball 400 ft. Does that mean it can't be done?
Just some food for thought.