“Cinnabar Palm”, or “Blow of deferred Death”?

[Fu Hok Seung]

From the book by Jin Jing Zhong "Training Methods of 72 Arts of Shaolin" (Tanjin, 1934):

“Cinnabar palm” is the soft GONG FU, it trains the inner power and belongs to category YIN. This exercise is also called “The Palm of Plum Blossom”1 (MEI HUA ZHANG) and “Palm of Red Sand” (HONG SHA ZHANG).
…If you are in command of this GONG FU, you need not touch the enemy with hands. You make stroking movements or strike with a palm at some distance and the enemy is severely injured and will surely die in 10-15 days or even in several hours. Being in command of this GONG FU, you must not misuse it in any case. It is a manifestation of guile and ill intentions to use it secretly. It can be used only in extremity to defend your life or the life of your near relatives. Unfounded use of this skill is immoral and disapproved by specialists in WU SHU.”

See in detail here: Link to details

Is it possible in reality and if so, how can it be explained from the scientific point of view? It would be interesting to know if anybody is in command of this technique at the present time. Perhaps, somebody has some knowledge about it and he will be able to answer some questions at least.

P.S. One more resembling method - "One Finger of Chan Meditation". Here a blow is made with a forefinger at some distance, which results in injury of the inner organs or spasms of blood vessels (see ISSUE#2).

[Szczepankiewicz]

I edited the weblink the 'gong-f u-e' is showing up as an

Moving to Chinese Arts

Spanky

[Gong Sau]

No

[QUOTE] Is it possible in reality and if so, how can it be explained from the scientific point of view?

No it's not possible just folklore and myth. From science maybe a person feels they have been hit but such a thing. They die in their mind and the body follows. Just junk not worth reading about. Nobody in HK even claims such skill. Plenty to try him if he did Randi's got a million $ for anyone who can do diddly squat at a distance with no touch. No one of Kong Jing could use a cool mill I see

[gaittec]

IMHO This is nothing more than Bull$hit. The Superhuman capability myth is something that is fun and tempting to believe and explore. In the end, it is a waste of time.

[millie]

dim mak

Is it possible in reality and if so, how can it be explained from the scientific point of view?
certain dim mak points can be activated without toach
i have seen a different people being ko from a distance 4 inches several times
dillmans kara te demos this at seminers some times and sell a video of such things
there is also a taiji side of dim mak

[osopardo]

[QUOTE=Gong Sau]

...They die in their mind and the body follows....

Like voodoo or witchcraft. Of course, the victim has to believe it works in order for it to work.

[Dr Jack]

Deferred Injury from a blow

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I edited the weblink the 'gong-f u-e' is showing up as an

Moving to Chinese Arts

Spanky

I am an acupuncturist (veterinary not human) and we discusss and learn about qi / blood/yin and yang .and how to unblock it as a cure for many conditions of stagnation. I suppose it makes intuiative sense to be able to block qi and blood flow to cause disease.A well timed blow to a meridian at say its lowest time of activity (as measured by a clock) could theoretically cause a problem.I suppose a blow could cause a delayed disease. I find doing it without touching a little hard to swallow. I took a seminar with a karate man out of Tennessee about 12 years ago and we spent all day on pressue points, he could knock you out with a slight slap to the proper points, he claimed 3 points for a knock out, 4 points for serious injury and 5 points could supposedly cause death. Be cool , just my 2 cents worth.

Jack

[Jun Fan]

The touch of death isn't that far fetched scientifically speaking. It's just the other end of the accupressure spectrum. It's just the idea of causing a block in the flow of energy around your body, which eventually causes death. Some people snub this simply because of the idea of energy, (chi/ki depending on your style) but it does exist scientifically as bioelectrical energy (think of the Matrix). We can cause blood clots and delayed death by striking arteries, so Dim Mack doesn't seem unreasonable.
I attended a seminar with a Dim Mack master two years ago, and although I didn't consider any of the techniques practical, (different targets have to be struuk at different times in different ways to achieve different effects) it was fascinating none the less, and I can still remember four different ways to kill at four different times. All I need to do now is condition my fingers against ball bearings for 20 years....

[osopardo]

The touch of death isn't that far fetched scientifically speaking. It's just the other end of the accupressure spectrum. It's just the idea of causing a block in the flow of energy around your body, which eventually causes death. Some people snub this simply because of the idea of energy, (chi/ki depending on your style) but it does exist scientifically as bioelectrical energy (think of the Matrix). We can cause blood clots and delayed death by striking arteries, so Dim Mack doesn't seem unreasonable.
I attended a seminar with a Dim Mack master two years ago, and although I didn't consider any of the techniques practical, (different targets have to be struuk at different times in different ways to achieve different effects) it was fascinating none the less, and I can still remember four different ways to kill at four different times. All I need to do now is condition my fingers against ball bearings for 20 years....

It's one thing to say that you can cause a delayed death by damaging the physical system(s), I have no problems with that assertion. It's quite something else to fantasize about disrupting somebody's life energy, ki, chi, etc. by waving their fingers at them from a distance, or even touching the victim with a low level of force.

BTW- using any sci-fi / fantasy movie (The Matrix?!?) as confirmation of any scientific theory wil only serve to undermine any validity the theory may have.

[Digisignal12]

My experience

I don't have any experience with this, although I've done some iron palm/golden bell cover kind of thing. However, I did have an illuminating experience with a guy from the Mainland who was doing Chi Kung with me. This guy was not a martial artist, but was an experienced Chi Kung practicioner. He routinely sent chi waves into my brain while sitting motionless. It looked like golden balls of fire pulsing out of a dark blue/black background. He could also magnetize my acupuncture points--made them feel like a magnet had been activated under the skin. He was about 4 feet away from me when he did this, sitting motionless. I also had a woman from Tibet wave her hands over my injured knee, about a foot above it. Felt like magnetized iron filings were swirling around inside my knee. Disparage this experience as you wish, I'm just telling you what happened. I have 30 years experience in Chinese MA, and do not believe in 99% of the Chi Kung stories I hear. However, I'm currently a student in a very highly respected CMA school based in Beijing, and my Shifu believes in chi as a fundamental part of his belief system. After 30 years, you know what I believe? That I don't know everything about the CMA. And that people who dismiss things out of hand maybe don't know everything either.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Death Touch

What is commonly refered to as a "death touch" was a strike to the H1 pressure point. There is documentation that at one time it worked. This was centuries ago when people were a lot smaller, ie.. thinner diameter ribs, less muscle mass, ect. There may have been other contributing factors that were undiagnosed at that time such as a heart murmer or other defect, which would make someone more succeptible to a inturruption in heart rythm. The normal rule of thumb that is practiced is, attacks on one meridian or following cycle of destruction,
1 point-causes pain
2 points-causes pain to meet in the middle
3 points-possible interuption in electro-chemical signal resulting in knockout
4 points-damage to affected organ resulting in temporary shut down
5 or more points-possible death?

It is important to note that even recongized pp experts admit that roughly 10% of the population is what is refered to as a non-responder to the pp's. Other people may be nonresponders to certain parts of the body or certain meridians, while other parts and meridians are hypersensitive.
With that being said, I've never seen an attacker let his victim check him out to see what works and what doesn't. While pp fighting is very interesting and there is a ton of documentation to support it, people today don't attack the same way they did in ancient China or Japan or anywhere else. You should make up your own mind if this is something viable that you can add to your arsenil of self defense, because it is not the end all and be all of self defense.
Mahalo, Jeremy

[sherwinc]

Like voodoo or witchcraft. Of course, the victim has to believe it works in order for it to work.

Voodoo or Witchcraft in your Country there.......

but here in the Philippines, we have here Hiwit, we have also here Barang.....

we have also here BotBot, and also Hilot for the pregnant woman......

but the Medical Doctors here will not agree with it......

haw haw haw haw

[Tom Yum]

we have also here BotBot, and also Hilot for the pregnant woman......

but the Medical Doctors here will not agree with it......

haw haw haw haw

I wunder why....???

[Ironpalm]

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