Wing Chun or Wing Tsun?

[TheJong]

You cannot move period
walking is cont. shiftinng your weight
Even if your weight isn't distributed balanced, you still have to shift it to move
Only way to move without shifting it fom left to right is jumping

That did make me sound kinda dumb. What I mean is if I had all my weight equally balanced my foot work would be slow in a fight. We don't just stand there in the "wing chun stance" and hope to hit something.

[47MartialMan]

Yeah, go here http://www.moyyat.com/origins.html they have good links to other schools

Thanks....any more?

[phenom]

that story has no credible evidence to get close to the real story check out benny ming museum of wing chun china

[MHack]

I heard that Wing Chun and Wing Tsun is almost the same thing but there are a few differences. Can someone tell me which i should take and what the differences are?

Ving Tsun is the Modified form of Wing Chun. Some schools with having you 'roll' hands forever before getting to the serious stuff or even using the wooden dummy (jong). If you want the traditional style, you've got to go to GrandMaster William Cheung Schools. Modified often falls into the rut boxing, karate, etc.. does by fighting in the center leaving oneself open in an almost game of tag like scenario. Somebody on this system misinterpreted Traditional and was actually describing Modified.

[tjwingchun]

Wing Chun was originally WC, a meeting of the Yip Man Athletic Association decided that for promotional reasons the initials WC equated with toilets in western writing so looked for an alternative spelling, so WT, VT, or whatever came about. Yip Man did not know English, neither do his sons apart from basic greetings, and the Chinese calligraphy remains constant no matter what.

Leung Ting trade marked 'Wing Tsun' to define his methods. He was never a student of Yip Man, he trained with him yes, had his photo taken with him yes, but in traditional terms he was taught by his uncle, a student of a Leung Sheung, who was the student of Yip Man.

William Cheung's Wing Chun is more the modified one as he left Hong Kong for Australia when 18 years old, hence the general lack of recognised chi sau and concentration on sparring as he was more of a fighter.

Unless of course you believe that Yip Man would decide that a 12 year old boy was going to be the one and only possessor of the true 'traditional' Wing Chun and all his friends who had helped him through hard times and both of his sons were going to be taught watered down lies or 'modified' Wing Chun. William Cheung's version not mine, its the beauty of print, unlike the fact that a dead man cannot come back to deny you, the words you publish in magazines can do years after?

[quietobserver]

Wing Chun was originally WC, a meeting of the Yip Man Athletic Association decided that for promotional reasons the initials WC equated with toilets in western writing so looked for an alternative spelling, so WT, VT, or whatever came about. Yip Man did not know English, neither do his sons apart from basic greetings, and the Chinese calligraphy remains constant no matter what.

Leung Ting trade marked 'Wing Tsun' to define his methods. He was never a student of Yip Man, he trained with him yes, had his photo taken with him yes, but in traditional terms he was taught by his uncle, a student of a Leung Sheung, who was the student of Yip Man.

William Cheung's Wing Chun is more the modified one as he left Hong Kong for Australia when 18 years old, hence the general lack of recognised chi sau and concentration on sparring as he was more of a fighter.

Unless of course you believe that Yip Man would decide that a 12 year old boy was going to be the one and only possessor of the true 'traditional' Wing Chun and all his friends who had helped him through hard times and both of his sons were going to be taught watered down lies or 'modified' Wing Chun. William Cheung's version not mine, its the beauty of print, unlike the fact that a dead man cannot come back to deny you, the words you publish in magazines can do years after?

It's true that most of the Wing Chun concepts Leung Ting learned were from his uncle. His uncle taught him the basic forms and he taught him the long pole form. Yip Man taught Leung Ting the butterfly swords and the Wooden Dummy. Leung Ting came from a rich family and he paid a considerable amount of money to Yip Man to teach him the more advanced techniques of Wing Chun. The benefit that Leung Ting had over the other WC instructors was he was able to find an extremely wealthy man to spread his version of Wing Chun throughout Europe. This man was Keith Kernspecht, who at the time of meeting Leung Ting was already a multi millionaire. Kernspecht is the true genius behind the WT system and Leung Ting is more of a figurehead. Kernspecht is the one who created the curriculum and having a background in wrestling, boxing, weight lifting, he was the first in the Wing Chun world to really incorporate cross training and apply it to his Wing Chun. Also the benefit of having thousands of students to test your theories did not hurt as well when a typical Yip Man class only consisted of maybe 10 or 25 students. Leung Ting is not a very good businessman, and he's gone bankrupt several times and Kernspecht had to bail him out. That's why Kernspecht's title is the same as Leung Ting. They both are ranked at 10th level Grandmaster. As for WT, it's a different way of Wing Chun. I can't say if it's good or bad but there are definitely some pretty good martial artists in WT and there are some pretty good ones in other branches. It really depends on the person. For some WT is a better fit and for others it's not as good of a fit.

[quietobserver]

as for Yip Man, he really wasn't a very good instructor and by the time he got old all those years of opium addiction had taken a toll on his body. His sons are out there claiming they were taught by their father but in actuality they never showed an interest in Wing Chun until after the Bruce Lee phenomenon when they failed in their respective professions. Both had gone into business for themselves and had failed. So there are watered down versions of Wing Chun because the teachers themselves did not take the time to dedicate their lives to their craft but only tried to capitalize from a marketing standpoint.

[Troll Virus]

quietobserver;

excuse me if I missed your intro, but you ream off all this material as if it is coming straight out of a book???

[quietobserver]

quietobserver;

excuse me if I missed your intro, but you ream off all this material as if it is coming straight out of a book???

not at all. Like most people here, I have an inquisitive nature and so I spoke to people who had first hand knowledge of the inner workings of the WT system. My source on Leung Ting's early teacher was from his youngest sister. The sources regarding Keith Kernspecht was his wife.

[47MartialMan]

Isnt there a Vsing Tsun museum in Ohio?

[Red Rum]

There is a lot of mention of Leung Ting and William Cheung here. Both claim to be the best in the business, but I have been to their schools, I have decimated their students. I am not a political man and hate the politics of wing chun, but there are a few instructors out there who have taken wing chun and mad it a laughing stock. There are good instructors out there and there are good students of the art. All I would say is if you have a look at Leung Ting doing any wing chun, you will laugh or cry

[LittleDemon]

Hiya

hey Everyone,

Wow, I didn't expect such a response to a topic aIstarted quite a while ago. I have trained Wing Tsun and Wing Chun. 7 years Wing tsun and 2 years Wing Chun.

In my own opinion I feel Wing Tsun is more theorised and is a very pretty art but for myself not very practical in the self defence area of things. Considering I could not defend myself against any of the Wing Chun when I began my training in 2005, I feel that Wing Tsun is easy but again un-practical where self defence is concerned.

I am very happy with my Wing Chun training now and how it is developing. I feel safer knowing I have strength and power to defend myself in a potentially life threatening situation. I hope this never occurs but I still feel more confident now then I ever have before in my ability as a martial artist.

Training 7 years of WT did lay down some foundations for me to develop with Wing Chun into a good balance between being soft and using forward energy where necissary. Wing Tsun was all soft thoug, and never trained me as good as I could have been taught.

Also the nicer thing in Wing Chun I have found is that everyone trains equal to everyone else, no one shows off or acts superior because they have a higher level of knowledge and experience.

All I can say is that WT for me is majorly watered down compared to the wing chun I now train which makes even the simplist of training methods increasingly challening and demanding. I even enjoy doing the forms more because there is more to them and I feel like im actually training something as apose to just learning a series of moves.

Everyone will have something to say im sure, im only expressing my own opinions having trained both sides of a martial art that is seemingly s very heated debateful subject.

L.D

[Bigbadade]

Guys It ain't the Martial Art that determines a fighter it is the martial artist!

[Red Rum]

Guys It ain't the Martial Art that determines a fighter it is the martial artist!

True, in most cases. But if you are an attentive, fast learning student trapped in a rubbish martial art, how can you ever get better!!

[Rickster]

True, in most cases. But if you are an attentive, fast learning student trapped in a rubbish martial art, how can you ever get better!!

You get better within your own

It isnt about proving your art or yourself....

It IS about IMPROVING within.

My wife and I paint and do sculptures, we do not do it to show how well we do, or to prove that we have the better....we do it for self....