Wing Chun - an overview of its training methods and effectiveness.

[kobra]

[QUOTE=Thai Bri]A year of dedicated training is enough to judge. [QUOTE]

But you yourself say that you only did the first form. You are righting off an art without the full picture.

[Tameo]

Thai bri you havent even learned the Chum Kiu form and the wooden dummy form. I also doubt you have mastered the Biu Jee in one year of training. You cant judge the effectiveness of Wing Chun from 1 year's training.

[Tameo]

Not to mention the "Six and a Half Pole" form, and the "Eight Cutting Knives" forms which are worth learning.

[Tom Yum]

Wing Chun pole and butterfly knives look fierce to me! I think it boils down to the instructor and the student. I read a seminar review for one of Emin Boztepe's seminars and the guy (a 2nd dan BB in hapkido) said that Emin's style and approach were very combat effective. Emin asked him to try and kick him and he through 4-5 kicks that he was able to avoid with footwork or by playing with the guys balance.

So to the wing chun stylists on board, how can you judge if you are at a good school?

[Thai Bri]

I'd love to see some verification of the WC child beating the adult Olympic boxer. This would take the MA world by storm. Come on Tameo, let's see some proof.

Tom - I would have been more impressed if Emin had said "come at me with anything you want to, as fast and as hard as you can". This is Richard Dimitri style. I've seen it for real and it is very impressive.

Just saying "come at me with kicks" is far less impressive. I reckon I could do the same trick in a large training hall. Kicks are just too slow to apply on their own, especially when you know they are coming.

[IPON]

Bri I will say this again, I respect your opinion, though, in general I may not agree with teh conclusion. I think you gave an honest account and IMHO if the subject were TKD ppl would say "oh yeah its a crap style..why try three schools" so there is a point wrong or right where you have to say do I have to go to 50 schools to find a good sifu and if so why? So again, I think we all have to be realistic about our style or any style. You should be able to fight after 1yr just based off the 1st form Bruce could. The difference between WC and other arts is that WC really is only for fighting that is the only goal, to train in a short time to fight. If you learned the rest of the forms and the dummy applications you may feel differnt but again, after 1 yr I can understand your frustration.

All stand up styles you have to shop around, maybe except for MT. But there have been many MT stylists that have complained about the level of training at thier schools

My 2 cents

[Nit]

How long does it take to train a soldier in self defense, or a policeman even?
If there are techniques and styles out there that allow these professionals to defend themselves in a short space of time (it doesn't take 8 years to train a policeman) then if you are learning a self defence martial art and you still can't defend yourself, or still haven't 'mastered it all' in about a year then you must be wasting a lot of time.

I've had 9 year of crappy air training interspersed with occasional bag work and impact training. I was still crap at self defence (could just be me I dunno) until I go to a reality based training event, and presto! I come out far far better at defending myself after a 6 hours training.

[bvermillion]

How long does it take to train a soldier in self defense, or a policeman even?

They have guns. There self defense training is a last resort and isn't all that good. But I do agree with you it shouldn't take a long time to be proficient enough to defend your self.

[Thai Bri]

We don't have guns in our country mate!

[IPON]

Those who tell you that you can't fight without being efficent at chi-sau are also stupids.

I agree interms of fighting, but not teaching. If could beat an instructor in single/double chi sao I truely believe they have nothing to offer.

[IPON]

Although my shots were fast and accurate, they had absolutely no effect what so-ever other than temporarily stunning my opponents.

The reason for this (unbeknown to me at the time) is that my muscle memory had only been conditioned to deliver touch with control impact.

This is what comes from the practice of punching and striking out at nothing more than air, and training for point- semi-contact sparring for years. Instead

Well, don't disagree with teh training perspectives in combatives and such. But IMHO this guy is silly, it may just be the way I train, but if he could not tell the difference between punching with full commitment and point sparring don't blame TMAs.

[kobra]

Bri, if you cannot use the 'Wing Chun' you learnt then it must be either your instructor or you who is incompetent.

Wing Chun has many effective techniques. It’s punches are very fast –fast enough to beat the Olympic boxer! That is why it is a martial art not a sport.

[Thai Bri]

kobra - I'm not buying the "beat an Olympic Boxer" line just yet. I'm still awaiting the verification (which is a long time coming.....).

And to say "if you can't make it work it is the fighter or teacher" argument is circular. I have trained other arts, and they sure as hell worked.

[kobra]

kobra - I'm not buying the "beat an Olympic Boxer" line just yet. I'm still awaiting the verification (which is a long time coming.....).

And to say "if you can't make it work it is the fighter or teacher" argument is circular.

Defeating boxers is straight forward. They train with gloves and no kicks. A Martial artist should be able to defeat them. Wing Chun should be drilled so that you instinctively trap their wild punches as they bridge, that is what the Chi sau is for.

[Crabpuff]

who ever said a boxers punches were wild, on top of that if boxing is so weak, then why did bruce lee incorporate it in his fighting. Saying they only train with gloves is like saying WC artist punch only air. Some do and some don't. Personally i am very carefully around boxers, MA or not, some of these guys are nasty fighters. As for a 14 year old kid beating a olympic boxer, that is a load of crap. Was the guy drunk to the point he couldn't stand. If so what was the name of the Boxer?