Wing Chun - an overview of its training methods and effectiveness.

[Tameo]

What do you mean?

[Thai Bri]

Haw haw haw.

Tameo, you're a treasure.

[sherwinc]

Boxing is a sport. In a boxing competition it usually takes a long time to beat your opponent. Many rounds. In WC it doesn’t take that long it takes a few seconds. That’s the main difference between sports and real deadly martial arts. I’m not saying boxing cant be effective in a street fight or against another boxer or some similar style of fighting, but it just wont beat a skilled WC practitioner who has so much more techniques and is much more economical with the movements as well as having much better defense. Just my opinion. You don’t have to agree.

aside from many rounds, there are lots of referre stopage or referree pauses when illegal blows,

in kungfu, the moment you've hit in the head and you drop for a moment you regain your balance - you are already defeat.

why????

since if it not the stoppage / pause by the referee, a sure follow-up of deadly combinations.....

boxing fights are really too disgusting.......

[sherwinc]

By the way the only WC I know about and practice is traditional Wing Chun so I can't judge all the other WT's VT's and such.

And that is CORRECT!!!!! The more the art is Traditional the more it is intact or lesser the error.

it doesnt need to revised cause it is already century proven its effectiveness and not showing to the public is the most important.

Now that i know that there are many version of WingChun, maybe that is the reason why non-kungfu martial arts looks wingchun a low quality martial arts because of the revision of the art.

I also learn Traditional ChiDianBun KungFu.

for me, the most important in learning kungfu is to learn more traditional kungfu (pure) and mixed all kungfu styles/systems (traditional) that you presently learn is the highest achievement. I dont want that kungfu has a mixed with other non_kungfu martial arts, it will turn to a low quality and deterioration.

[IPON]

A profesional boxer goes to our WC school and i spar with him very often.

Yes but are you sparring with this boxer as WC VS WC or WC vs Boxing. Boxers are masters of punching just as Judoka are masters of throwing and boxers have put many a standup artist on thier ass. But in Fairness you can't use the same logic everyone is criticizing Bri about. Let's say you did see 2 boxers loose is that a good case for all boxers.

You know what is interesting before I started posting here I have always felt all MAs are good and have their place that challege to me was how could beat somone in another style I never thought good/bad. I challeged my Uncle to a match when I was young becuase through wrestling I saw a weakness in his TKD not that I thought TKD was weak and wrestling superior perse. The reason is that IMHO anyone can beat anyone at any time no need for overconfidence. Can a guy with little to no fight experience/training beat a WC/MT/BJJ stylist hell yeah though the bigger the training/technical gap the less the chance. But you just can't rule out a style because it is more limited. Judo uses little to no strikes so it is limted but still effective.

Anyway my point is about honesty and truth about respective styles I won't protect any style just becuase I train in it. I always stay objective. I study HKD now and there are defenses that simply will not work (or at least for me) I learn the teachnique for the style but it stops there.

[Nit]

for all the huffing and puffing here it makes me want to crack all your heads together. We should be working together to further ourselves and our respective arts so that they become /continue to be useful. We can only do that by casting a critical eye and testing our theories, take the (slightly inaccurate) view that verbal discussion can only merit in description of what has been, it cannot qualify what might be.

Everyone is the same in being different, we have the same anatomy but we use our bodies and minds differently. So when you find something that works for you it may not work for someone else, but the chances are it will work for many others.

I value Bri's critique, because without the a balance eye we end up believing and talking bullshit in the defence of our own beliefs of our system.

How do you know what you believe is true unless you question it? Faith in self defence is a bad bad thing, give me 5 mins in simulated (or real) fighting over a lifetime of training where I have been told it works but never really (properly bleeding broken epidermis really, not sparring with friends really) done it.

so lets all get together and rumble? I'll setup a dojo if you bring St Johns Green Angels

[IPON]

Here is a link about WC pro/cons what does everyone think. Regarding teh cons I don't agree with the use locks chin na was incpoorated into my training (but then that may not be traditional) and the issue of not really interal/external

http://www.staff.ncl.ac.uk/nikolas.lloyd/kungfu/kfpandc.html

[IPON]

Boxing is a sport. In a boxing competition it usually takes a long time to beat your opponent. Many rounds. In WC it doesn’t take that long it takes a few seconds. That’s the main difference between sports and real deadly martial arts. I’m not saying boxing cant be effective in a street fight or against another boxer or some similar style of fighting, but it just wont beat a skilled WC practitioner who has so much more techniques and is much more economical with the movements as well as having much better defense. Just my opinion. You don’t have to agree.

Tameo it can also take many rounds to beat a MMA stylist but that does not mean they are ineffective. The problem is you are comparing the sport vs street fight - essentially you are stating boxing is limited with rules and WC is good with no rules, which is not untrue but not fair. Compare No rules for both boxing and WC now you ar fighting somone with great foot work and punching power and yes you will get elbows from a boxer in close..they do it in the ring (see the Larry holmes fighhts ).

Your friend testing WC vs boxing is no different than going into K1. WC just has to adapt.

Now I am not bashing WC but with all things training is the key. If we say WC just for fighting not competition OK, if people are training realistically. But Bri is correct you will have a wakecall when trying to apply tecniques if the training is weak. Ultamitely, one aspect if not the main reason for all of use training should be survival.

[Nit]

Anyway my point is about honesty and truth about respective styles I won't protect any style just becuase I train in it. I always stay objective. I study HKD now and there are defenses that simply will not work (or at least for me) I learn the teachnique for the style but it stops there.

zactly

beat me to the post Ipon... I concur with what you say...

Incidentally I've found the psychological side of fighting (for real) plays a large part in who wins. Since learning Shredder I win most of my close sparring now due to the fact I talk to the opponent and scare the living **** out of them when I (simulate) biting and growl like a raving alsatian (this is before I put my hands anywhere near their face)

It's funny, since I started doing that some of my instructors have gotton very defensive about teaching me, they seem to think that I am getting too arrogant and that I need more discipline. Which is suprising as I have know these people for years and they know my character well. But all of a sudden I am getting a load of bullshit about 'honour','respect' and 'control', like some pissed up git in a bar is going to care that your a disciplined efficient student of blah...

It's amazing really, show a learner their arse on a plate and they want to learn how you did it, show an instructor or experienced artist their arse on a plate and they make excuses and draw ranks ("Yeah but, yeah but, yeah but")


Sorry, I hijacked your post a bit Ipon.

[kobra]

And that is CORRECT!!!!! The more the art is Traditional the more it is intact or lesser the error.

it doesnt need to revised cause it is already century proven its effectiveness and not showing to the public is the most important.

Now that i know that there are many version of WingChun, maybe that is the reason why non-kungfu martial arts looks wingchun a low quality martial arts because of the revision of the art.

What silliness really! How do you know that what you learn is either materially the same as what was learnt in the old days and/or that it is effective?

[Nit]

I do agree, its akin to saying I learn boxing, Mohammed Ali, Frasier, Foreman were boxers and were unbeatable, therefore it is tried and tested and does not need development.

[IPON]

What silliness really! How do you know that what you learn is either materially the same as what was learnt in the old days and/or that it is effective?

Too true. Sherwic needs a side order of some reality with his plate of narrow opinion

[bartjam]

Tameo, how old are you? 12? plz stop with this fuckin' "WC fighters don't enter the ring 'cos WC is not a sport and is too deadly". Old weak argument. Go to a MMA school and try out. Make your fuckin' chi-sau workin'

[Crabpuff]

That kid must have some of the best timing in the world, or that guy was taking it easy on the kid. As for show are you saying MT kickboxing is for show, cuz they have professional bouts. I think you are full of it, but hey if you really want to think that with WC boxers are a breeze, i can't wait for the ass kicking you will receive. And if this kid is so great than the adults must be superstars, so why don't you record some footage of this "kid in action" and then send us a link to see it.

[kobra]

Wing Chun can easily beat boxing if you use the butterfly knifes -then you have a clear advantage. But to fight a boxer with Wing Chun alone is more risky, unless you mix it with some other art such as Aikido to make it more complete.

When I start teaching Endless-circle-kempo-karatejitsu I will teach my students to beat a boxer using pressure-point strikes to the wrists as the boxer jabs. And we will only kick to the throat so it will be very effective.