Why is Kung Fu not considered to be truly effective in actual combat?

[sherwinc]

A short list of Boxing footwork(Not in entirety)

Sliding Steps(Standard footwork to either attack or evade, long and short steps, forward, lateral, backward, and at angles in between)

Lunging Steps(Using to set up power punches especially to the body i.e. Mike Tyson in his prime (1986-1990))

Pivoting(Used to evade an advancing opponent and/or improve punching angles)

Foot Shuffling(Movement around opponents in a fast manner and can be used to set up or evade opponents, i.e. Ali(1962-1967))

Extremely Correct!!!!!!

as to my experience in sparring, footwork of boxing especially this Sliding Steps, Lunging Steps, Pivoting, Foot Shuffling, etc.... is extremely difficult to close the gap and maintain the fight in a short distance rather than Karate's FootWork.....

the only thing that karate footwork that i am impressed is their ability to jump/hop backward immediately after they punch you, cause you have to close the shortdistance gap again.....

cause chi dian bun footwork is has no retreating step but only advance and we fight in stillness and not frequently moving cause its very exhausting (truely very exhausting when you reach the age of 50+)

[sherwinc]

Broadsword2004, you know, i really like the art of BroadSword KungFu, i really practice it cause i really love it ...... even thou my field in weaponry is Hik Tai Chi Sword

[HuSanYan]

good post BroadSword2004

[yentao]

I am a fan of many different styles of Kung Fu, especially Shaolin and Wing Chun. I have never seen a Kung Fu artist in battle against another martial artist, in competition or in the srtreet. I have heard that it is qouted to be "Too Airy Fairy," to be used effectively in combat situations. If this is true, how did Bohidarma(If I am spelling his name correctly, if not forgive me.) and other Kung Fu artists gain so much respect in the martial arts world.

It is because the media made it famous! It is good business, but really if you want good answers find some one who can teach you the real stuff because learning kung fu through here is not enough.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

A short list of Boxing footwork(Not in entirety)

Sliding Steps(Standard footwork to either attack or evade, long and short steps, forward, lateral, backward, and at angles in between)

Lunging Steps(Using to set up power punches especially to the body i.e. Mike Tyson in his prime (1986-1990))

Pivoting(Used to evade an advancing opponent and/or improve punching angles)

Foot Shuffling(Movement around opponents in a fast manner and can be used to set up or evade opponents, i.e. Ali(1962-1967))

Sliding steps, we had those in karate
Lunge steps , we had those too
Pivoting without a doubt present in karate

Yori ashi, tsugi ashi, suri (komi) ashi, tai/ashi sabaki,taiken
Yori ashi, first widen( or make longer) the stance then retract it to normal fighting stance ( doesn't matter if to side or front or back)
Tsugi ashi, first make the stance shorter or less wide then come back in normal
Suri (komi) ashi pull rear foot past front foot and then step tru ( to bridge a distance)
Example of pivot, step diagonal to front and outside with left foot pivot on it and pull right foot and punch a left revese punch to the side of oponent

The footwork of the style I did(Wado) looks more like Kendo than Shotokan karate ( I think that's one of the reasons I didn't have any problems crosstraining in Savate and MT/Kickboxing)

[sherwinc]

Sliding steps, we had those in karate
Lunge steps , we had those too
Pivoting without a doubt present in karate

Yori ashi, tsugi ashi, suri (komi) ashi, tai/ashi sabaki,taiken
Yori ashi, first widen( or make longer) the stance then retract it to normal fighting stance ( doesn't matter if to side or front or back)
Tsugi ashi, first make the stance shorter or less wide then come back in normal
Suri (komi) ashi pull rear foot past front foot and then step tru ( to bridge a distance)
Example of pivot, step diagonal to front and outside with left foot pivot on it and pull right foot and punch a left revese punch to the side of oponent

The footwork of the style I did(Wado) looks more like Kendo than Shotokan karate ( I think that's one of the reasons I didn't have any problems crosstraining in Savate and MT/Kickboxing)

i never know that there are steps like that too in karate, making it an advantage to boxers too....

perhaps, shorin ryu karate here is only stance to stance and hopping and skipping....

i was a yellow belt in shorin ryu karate during my highschool years.....

[konghan]

i don't know if this falls under kung fu (as the word is ordinarily used) but i saw a guy trained in kung fu who specializes in throwing needles. man, you can't believe this guy. i saw him twice -- in discovery channel and believe it or not. he can throw an ordinary sewing needle so hard and fast that it would punch a hole into a 1/4 inch thick glass.

now, for those like me who think that this falls under "kung fu," the prospects of a needle buried in my temple or forehead during actual combat really makes me cringe.

Have you ever seen or witness for real coin & chopstick throwing? me, I have, in HK in a public street demosntration this guy could throw chopstick right into a 1/2 plywood penetrating it. He was about maybe 7 to 10 feet away from the target. Is it circus act or kung fu? to the innocent & ignorant it is circus act to the more serious one it is kung fu.

[Dim Wit Moc]

We have this same sort of boxing footwork in kenpo karate also as well as boxing moves when using upper body weapons which also includes elbows, various open hand moves, the head,etc. Many techniques are common to both kenpo and kung fu, but have different names. For example, a half fist in kenpo is the leapard's paw in kung few. The leopard's mouth in kung fu is the web hand in kenpo. There is also a balanced emphasis on grappling. We use kicking to, but we don't have the heavy emphasis that TKD does. The study of kenpo and kung fu is perfect for me.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

i never know that there are steps like that too in karate, making it an advantage to boxers too....

perhaps, shorin ryu karate here is only stance to stance and hopping and skipping....

i was a yellow belt in shorin ryu karate during my highschool years.....

It might very well be unique to Wado karate, I don't know enough about other styles to know if they have simular way of moving
Probably the Sindo jinnen ryu JKR has the same seeing that their founder and the Wado founder trained together and Konishi had a kendo dojo before
Actually Funakoshi and Ohtsuka ( Wado founder) asked Konishi if they could use his Dojo for Karate trainings, as a result Konishi was introduced to pre Shotokan, Funakoshi karate
This karate had only Kata and Basics, no 2 man excercises, it was the 2 ( Konishi and Ohtsuka) that started experimenting with Kumite forms ( omongst which free sparring)

But enough of this Karatespamming, the thread is about Kung Fu not about a chinese okinawan japanese eclectic art

[Broadsword2004]

Muhummad Ali DID study karate, he studied it under George Dillman, just google it or go here: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/...veningStandard

As for karate's footwork in relation to boxing, old style boxing of the time had none of that footwork. Ali revolutionized boxing and boxing evolved to include the new footwork. Karate had it well before boxing did. The karate fighters who "jump in and jump back out" are not training properly in karate, or true karate anyhow. Karate has become too much of an art that's all about linear in and out movement and rigid movements and such; it was not that. Karate is a very fluid art; the stances are just for building up strength and so forth, and balance. The karate that I studied had all of the footwork that you mentioned for boxing, and more. The only other forms of boxing that had that kind of footwork were probably the boxing done by the Greeks and in Pankration and such; traditional Western boxing did not have very good fotwork in its early days, until Ali came in.

[Broadsword2004]

Wow, chopstick throwing and coin throwing, needle throwing, I gotta learn one of those lol

[sherwinc]

Wow, chopstick throwing and coin throwing, needle throwing, I gotta learn one of those lol

chopsticks is a very legal to carry compare to board darts....

but here in the Philippines, you are free to bring board darts any time you like.... (may tuktuk pa na, tetanus haw haw haw)

even in all Barrio Fiesta
(Bayle and Sweet Disco in all of the Barrio) they carry balisong knife, trouble frequently arises.....

most of the people in barrio carrie balisong knife, bolo (binangon)

especially in mindanao barrio, all of the province house there are all equiped of firearm weapons (pugak-hang, paltik pusil)

no need to learn how to throw chopsticks.....

note:
be sure not to enter Shopping Malls cause the guard will confiscate your weapon.....

[yentao]

LOL I bring chakus in malls guards will not even notice it i will just cover it with a towel ang shirt. This is popular weapon to chinese in frat wars compare to balison,chaku can stop someone in one swing to the neck and more harder to evade.

[IPON]

Muhummad Ali DID study karate, he studied it under George Dillman

"Dillman went on to teach Ali selected karate moves, but he became much more than the boxer's martial arts instructor and jogging partner."

Fair enoungh, I do remember this. But Ali never recieved a BB and the training was just that some techniques and philosophy. Ali was a champ before the two met if I am not mistaken. So while Karate training under Dillman may have helped hi It was not soley responsible for his success.

[Broadsword2004]

Yeah, that's what I meant if I didn't write it clearly; like I said, Ali's talent played a big part too