Why is Kung Fu not considered to be truly effective in actual combat?

[jmd161]

Bri I think what he's trying to say is that at the end of the day, training and preparation are just that....training and preparation.

I totally believe that someone who has trained to a competent level in something like kickboxing, jkd, mt, boxing is going to be at least physically capable of doing serious damage on the street if need be. And I totally believe that someone who has knowledge of things like you have listed, fear control, scenarios, improvised weapons, basically reality-based combat training is gonna be a lot more able to use that strength in the correct manner.

BUT...just because you've studied all that theory, and trained, doesn't mean you're going to be 100% out on the street, because no matter how much reality BASED training you do, it'll never be reality..it'll never be serious, your enemy will never be trying to maim/kill you, deep down you'll feel safe and secure in you dojo/gym.

and you can never predict how you will react to a streetfight..until you've been in one...or more.

At the end of the day I'm agreeing with you, these days you can do a lot to prepare yourself for a street encounter..but I agree with the other dude aswell in the fact that it's only preparation.

Sanitarium,

Thanks you understand EXACTLY what i was saying. Bri, is always so busy looking for an arguement ,that he does'nt even attempt to understand what's being said. And this is the type of person that was protecting the general public?!?!

A Police Officer that is quick to call someone out of their name ,and insult them. One that does'nt take the time to understand what's being said ,and thinks he knows it all ,and one that obviously has a very bad attitude.

Wow!!

What city and country is that???

If that's the type of person that represents their law enforcement??? That is some place i would NEVER like to visit.

Bri,

I feel sorry for you bro.

If someone goes through life with that much of a chip on their shoulder ,they can't be enjoying life! Yeah i went through the streets prepared with two 9mm semi automatic hand guns. It did me no good when i came up against four guys armed with assualt rifles. I don't know where you live what city or Country ,but i do know the streets of Miami,Fl and Brooklyn,NY. How many times have YOU found yourself in a shootout with law breakers where you where out gunned? The police here have been fighting for yrs to get more powerful weapons. Because they are fighting young street thugs that are armed with weapons ,just like you see being used against the soldiers in Iraq.

How do you bring a hand gun to an assualt rifle shootout?

That's what's happening on the streets of miami ,where the gun of choice is a fully automatic AK-47. Police Officers are responding to shots being fired or robbery in progress ,and arriving to the scene to find out they're out gunned. You can try and prepare for the streets ,and yes experience on the streets does help. But you are NEVER truly prepared for the streets. And if you think some course in a dojo prepares you for the streets?? Then i just don't know what to tell you bro.

jeff

[Thai Bri]

I think you're going a bit of topic Jeff. Mind you, since it takes another guy to put your argument for you, thats not to be unexpected.

The fact is that you unequivocally CAN preapre for the streets (obviously) but, like I have said in this thread, there are no 100% guarantees.

Try to say what you mean. It really does help good conversation.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

I think you're going a bit of topic Jeff. Mind you, since it takes another guy to put your argument for you, thats not to be unexpected.

The fact is that you unequivocally CAN preapre for the streets (obviously) but, like I have said in this thread, there are no 100% guarantees.

Try to say what you mean. It really does help good conversation.

Bri, maybe a mataphore can help, a doctor can prepare for his first operation but the real operation will be a totally new experience with its own stresslevel
And some still drop out before, the stress of having a persons life in your hands can't be simulated just as the stress of fighting for your life can't be simulated in the gym even the best training won't do that, our brain doesn't let it be fooled that way
this is true for people who like to fight but for people who don't like it, people that entered MA/SD because they have a fear of being beaten, this difference between reallifestress and the gym is enormous, adrenalinelevels off the scale (maybe that's the solution, an adrenaline shot during training )

It's not even the stress of the fight itself but the prefightstress

Off course you are free to think otherwise but I think you are making the same mistake as a BB traditional karate that thinks he can defend himself against anyone

[IronFist]

Waving arms around and wearing pjamas ?

sorry but that such a funny comment

But how is waving arms about in forms, wearing pyjamas and generally posing going to prepare someone for a real fight?

Agreed, MMA tournaments are not perfect preparation for the street. But they are still infinitley better than 99.9% of Kung Fu.

[fyse0]

this is a response having not read any but the first two..

I'll never believe any of the kung fu is worthless myths, except grapplers and throwers.. and now how many of these people are there?

1. In real life if you were in a bad situation it's probably against some random guy who's been in un-trained fist fights.

2. many forms of kung fu, especially gongfu/wushu (what I do) which is the one that is percieved as airy.. is especially based on quick movements. faster than karate, taekwondo, wing chun.. very fast. If you can get out of the way of a strike and hit faster than youre opponent with effective hits. you'll win.

in the end though it comes down to brawn. A boxer vs. A martial artist; the boxer will probably win because he is so strong, packed with muscle and unless we find an opening etc etc our hits arent effective.

[sherwinc]

in the end though it comes down to brawn. A boxer vs. A martial artist; the boxer will probably win because he is so strong, packed with muscle and unless we find an opening etc etc our hits arent effective.

comparing which of the two is stronger:

the full power uppercut or full power roundhouse punch of boxing

or

the iron fist or the iron palm of Ngo Cho Kun????????

Note:
KungFu is also translated as "Chinese Boxing"

[Tom Yum]

Note:
KungFu is also translated as "Chinese Boxing"

In mandarin, gongfu means 'to do work' or 'great skill'. Chinese boxing is zhong guo chuan fa or zhong guo chuan ji.

[KungfuJeremy]

"in the end though it comes down to brawn. A boxer vs. A martial artist; the boxer will probably win because he is so strong, packed with muscle and unless we find an opening etc etc our hits arent effective."

you must not know much about martial arts and fighting if you really believe that someone who is stronger will beat a martial artist. i would say boxer is a good fighter because that is his profession, and he might have an advantage over the average martial artist because he spends all of his time fighting, but saying that he is stronger is the reason for winning is total BS.

Boxers may be very muscular but they too have weaknesses like everyone else and they may be able to hit really hard, but so can most martial artists.

[sherwinc]

In mandarin, gongfu means 'to do work' or 'great skill'. Chinese boxing is zhong guo chuan fa or zhong guo chuan ji.

China= WuShu
Western= KungFu
Singapore, Taiwan= KouShu
Amoy= KokSut

while in Philippines (ignorant Filipino) it is called= Karate HAW HAW HAW

[Toudiyama[NL]]

China= WuShu
Western= KungFu
Singapore, Taiwan= KouShu
Amoy= KokSut

while in Philippines (ignorant Filipino) it is called= Karate HAW HAW HAW

Wushu=Martial Art or martial way like Budo
quan fa to my knowledge means fist art or something like it (quan, keun or kun means fist) quan fa =kenpo

[Thai Bri]

Bri, maybe a mataphore can help, a doctor can prepare for his first operation but the real operation will be a totally new experience with its own stresslevel
And some still drop out before, the stress of having a persons life in your hands can't be simulated just as the stress of fighting for your life can't be simulated in the gym even the best training won't do that, our brain doesn't let it be fooled that way
this is true for people who like to fight but for people who don't like it, people that entered MA/SD because they have a fear of being beaten, this difference between reallifestress and the gym is enormous, adrenalinelevels off the scale (maybe that's the solution, an adrenaline shot during training )

It's not even the stress of the fight itself but the prefightstress

Off course you are free to think otherwise but I think you are making the same mistake as a BB traditional karate that thinks he can defend himself against anyone

No, I am not. I never said anyone could be unbeatable. In fact I clearly stated that NOT to be the case. I merely said that you could prepare for the streets. To use your analogy, who would you rather have operate on you - the trained surgeon or the man off the street? That is what I am saying.

ps - actually thee IS adrenalin training,and excellent it is too. But you do it with realistic scenarios and full contact drills, not an adrenalin shot.

[jmd161]

I think you're going a bit of topic Jeff. Mind you, since it takes another guy to put your argument for you, thats not to be unexpected.

Hmmmm, I wonder how he got the point on the first try ,and you did'nt get it at all?!?!

The fact is that you unequivocally CAN preapre for the streets (obviously) but, like I have said in this thread, there are no 100% guarantees.

Fact is that you can "TRY" and prepare for the streets. There is no being prepared for the streets.

Try to say what you mean. It really does help good conversation.

Try to read what ppl write instead of trying to start arguments!!

And if you don't understand something? Try asking for an explanation ,it's the "ADULT" thing to do. Petty arguments are what children do.

jeff

[jmd161]

Okay so you are claiming that you're a cop? I thought that usually as far as hip holsters went cops only had it on one side, and it was a twist out holster or something of that sort.

You have me confused with Bri he's the cop or ex cop.

What? In the US police officers have M16 variants, in the patrol cars, and if they dont have that then they do have 12 gauge shot guns, or they have one of the many MP5 models. You are trying to tell me that the police are out gunned, well it happened in LA, and ever since they've gone crazy. They've got APC's for crying out loud.

Well, now they do have them in just about all patrol cars ,but that was not the case too long ago. Have you ever tried shooting a 12 ga shotgun at someone firing a fully automatic weapon at you??? I'm telling you their own words that they are out gunned. Those are from police officer friends i have not my words.

I dont know when this happened to you (if you are in fact a cop) and i could see it happening but i do doubt if its the norm. Besides the thugs didnt know how to use the weapons because if they did you'd be dead, remember the Army Ranger that shot up a bunch of fbi agents with a mini 14. Last time i checked the one he used had a hi mag, and was semi auto. Anyways there's a selector switch for a reason because depending on the sitituation semi, or full is better.

Well if you're familiar with the streets? I'm sure you know that just about any assualt rifle on the street has "Hi mag capacity". Hell, i ordered a 100 round mag for my AK-47 ,so it's not hard to get. How many police officers you know carry 100 round mags??

I had a friend that recently got out of prison after about 12 yrs. He went to prison on Federal Weapons charges. His house was raided by the FBI,ATF,Customs ,and many state and local police departments. In his house he had two fully automatic tommy machine guns,a crate of M-16's,Granades,Granade Launchers,land mines, and numorus other weapons.

The exact words that came out of the FBI agents mouth when they arrested him was this. "You could've killed all of us easily ,If you did'nt want us to capture you. We were not prepared for this stuff" My friend's words to the FBI agent " I know , I just did'nt feel like fighting"

That's my whole point to Bri. You can't prepare for what you don't even know exist. You can't prepare for a enemy that you've never met!! Those classes i'm sure help to make you more aware of your surroundings and such. But the streets evole everyday ,and that's too fast for those classes to be able to be effective.

jeff

[Crabpuff]

You know you are right when you say that you can not prepare for everything on the "streets" because you do not know what is out there. If you pay attention to Bri's counterpoints he is stating that you can be BETTER prepared for the streets, maybe not on how to fight an AK but i would say that learning to defend ones self and some of the training he state(fear control,awareness, legal training) will help you prepare for some of the incidents that go on in the streets. But of course you can not prepare for everything. I think that i picked it up because i can see past the my own reality, but i could be wrong

[Tom Yum]

How can highschool kids get demolition training?

Its not a sarcastic response. Seriously.