Afraid of MMA competition

[darrianation]

I am sick and tired of hearing all you Traditional Martial arts guys and gals and especially you guys in Kung Fu say that “Ring fighting or fighting in the UFCs is not self-defense. I can’t use my art because all my techniques are Illegal”. I have heard this in thread after thread and post after post. This is a cop out and a crock of shit!

You mean to tell me in your MA class you use Illegal strikes or deadly strikes against your class mates during sparring? So you don’t unless it is semi/light or simulated contact Huh? Do you spar using your art? Then why in the hell can’t you do that against someone in the UFC, Pride, K1, or any MMA event?

If you are using light contact/semi contact simulated contact, or pre-arranged contact then you are training wrong! Its okay for beginners (training wheels) but at some point it’s time to put away the Gerber’s and begin eating meat! Maybe you need to find a different system.

I am not saying you should go around gouging eyes out in class; it’s just if you can spar in class without taking your partners eyes out then why do you feel you have to do it in the ring?

You are also assuming that just because someone is a MMA competition fighter they don’t’ know the dirty Illegal stuff. Listen eye pokes and gouges, kidney blows, brain stem and throat strikes, and etc are not a secret. And I have news for you neither are groin strikes.

If you can fight your classmates without using the “deadly stuff” while still performing your perspective art then you can enter the octagon and do the same thing. The same things that limit you in the octagon (rules) also limit them!

When you spar your classmates (full contact) you are limited by rules for safety, so don’t tell me you can’t do that in the ring, you do it every day in class. So quite your f***ing whining and put up or shut up!

[konghan]

I am sick and tired of hearing all you Traditional Martial arts guys and gals and especially you guys in Kung Fu say that “Ring fighting or fighting in the UFCs is not self-defense. I can’t use my art because all my techniques are Illegal”. I have heard this in thread after thread and post after post. This is a cop out and a crock of shit!

You mean to tell me in your MA class you use Illegal strikes or deadly strikes against your class mates during sparring? So you don’t unless it is semi/light or simulated contact Huh? Do you spar using your art? Then why in the hell can’t you do that against someone in the UFC, Pride, K1, or any MMA event?

If you are using light contact/semi contact simulated contact, or pre-arranged contact then you are training wrong! Its okay for beginners (training wheels) but at some point it’s time to put away the Gerber’s and begin eating meat! Maybe you need to find a different system.

I am not saying you should go around gouging eyes out in class; it’s just if you can spar in class without taking your partners eyes out then why do you feel you have to do it in the ring?

You are also assuming that just because someone is a MMA competition fighter they don’t’ know the dirty Illegal stuff. Listen eye pokes and gouges, kidney blows, brain stem and throat strikes, and etc are not a secret. And I have news for you neither are groin strikes.

If you can fight your classmates without using the “deadly stuff” while still performing your perspective art then you can enter the octagon and do the same thing. The same things that limit you in the octagon (rules) also limit them!

When you spar your classmates (full contact) you are limited by rules for safety, so don’t tell me you can’t do that in the ring, you do it every day in class. So quite your f***ing whining and put up or shut up!

And I`m sick of all these immature, unrespectful & ungreatful kung fu bashers. Kung fu open its doors to the world & what do they get in return? GARBAGE. Kung fu can win against any MA be it in the ring or outside the ring. Beside most kung fu people have more important things to do like finishing college or university to become successful business executives rather than to become mindless fighters.

Now I understand why great sages of kung fu masters refuse to teach to "outsiders".

[jubaji]

Kung fu can win against any MA be it in the ring or outside the ring. ".

And I can jump over the Moon. I just choose not to because I'm so 'zenned up'.

[jubaji]

Now I understand why great sages of kung fu masters refuse to teach to "outsiders".

Yeah, they should only teach worthy souls like you. (right?)

[darrianation]

Now I understand why great sages of kung fu masters refuse to teach to "outsiders".

Because they were afraid we would find out the truth behind their mystical secrets. When you put them under a microscope they go poof into thin air.

[IPON]

So quite your f***ing whining and put up or shut up!

TURN THE VOLUME UP I CAN'T HEAR YOU

[IPON]

Excuses bother me as well, but if some chooses not to fight there is no shame and it is not a reflection of the person or the art. What I do have a problem with is the following:

1. ppl that are not honest and just say I do not want to fight and hide behind rhetoric

2. "MMAers" who assume because not everyone wants to play there style or system is flawed.

3. The assumption that "the ring" is final word of a styles effectiveness

[konghan]

Because they were afraid we would find out the truth behind their mystical secrets. When you put them under a microscope they go poof into thin air.

there is no secrets in kung fu, its all about character & good wisdom. but then again, i`m very sure that if you are so eager to prove yourself, why don`t you start challenging all the kung fu schools in your area ? it doesn`t have to be televised nor does it have to be in the UFC. And if you`er finish with that you can travel to China & publicly announce your challenge.

other than that, just what you said PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

[darrianation]

Excuses bother me as well, but if some chooses not to fight there is no shame and it is not a reflection of the person or the art. What I do have a problem with is the following:

1. ppl that are not honest and just say I do not want to fight and hide behind rhetoric

2. "MMAers" who assume because not everyone wants to play there style or system is flawed.

3. The assumption that "the ring" is final word of a styles effectiveness

Ipon your right I was bit overboard on the put up or shut up thing. That really didn't have anything to do with what I was trying to say.

I am saying what better place to showcase your system and try to work out the kinks? You don’t' have to give up on the eye gouging and throat striking thing, but there is more to the MAs than that.

Ring fighting is not the final word on a system’s effectiveness and I will be the first to admit to that but it is a way to but the theory to the test once in a while without getting your eye put out.

I mean what more do you want? If your system has head butting there are tourneys that allow that. If you want to use knees, elbows, Palm strikes, ridge hands, hammer fists, spinning elbow, back fists, and the list goes on, guess what? You are allowed. If you want to use fancy jump spinning upside down kicks you are allowed. If your system teaches techniques to crush bones, or snap joints or even pull hair you can do these things in the MMA tourney’s like the UFCs. I am tired of people pulling “my art is too deadly” out of the hat trick.

I mean damn how much does an art rely on eye gouges, biting, and throat strikes that it suddenly becomes useless when you take these things away? These are important in self-defense, but talk about putting all you eggs in one basket.

[darrianation]

there is no secrets in kung fu, its all about character & good wisdom. but then again, i`m very sure that if you are so eager to prove yourself, why don`t you start challenging all the kung fu schools in your area ? it doesn`t have to be televised nor does it have to be in the UFC. And if you`er finish with that you can travel to China & publicly announce your challenge.

other than that, just what you said PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

First I am not promoting a system. If I were I am to damn old to begin a fighting career now. But wait Hey I have done that.

I have been on the matt with wrestlers, I have been in the ring with boxers, I have been in the ring against MT fighters, against kick boxers, I have been in Karate tournaments, and I have also been in MMA tournaments both with striking only and NHB. I have won some a lost some But I have put my money where my mouth is. I know you have too.

There is nothing wrong with enjoying traditional martial arts, training with traditional weapons in the traditional way, just remember just because someone comes along with new ideas doesn’t mean its bad.

I think this is really what it's about- the here and now Real world vs. old world theories.The difference of living in theory and living in reality.

Also just becuase some of those theories have been proven 100's of years ago or 10 years ago doesn't mean they don't need to be proven now. Putting theory to the test and retesting it and making the necessary changes is the way to truth.

[Dim Wit Moc]

darrianation: It will sound like I am patronizing you, be rest assured, I am going to call it as I see it. I enjoy your posts because you are a bright and articulate young man. I get a good feel for people and this feel tells me you are an excellent fighter. I used to get in a lot of fights when I was younger and I did pretty well. Since I began studying the martial arts, I have only been in two little skirmishes. They were kept skirmishes because of my knowledge of kung fu. I have managed to avoid many fights because of my kenpo (your are wrong in your assessment of certain types of kenpo) and Five Animal Kung Fu training.

You make some interesting observations about some kung fu types. Some can't fight, but your brush is way too broad. I have studied under two sifus who were so caught up in "perfect technique" that any student who took that crap seriously, would get killed. There is such a thing as the "classical mess" as Bruce Lee phrased it and I was tempted to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but I saw the great possibilites that kung fu offered. I blend my animal forms with my kenpo, and I can hold my own with anyone who screws with me. Younger guys with younger joints who do what I do can downright kick some ass. Kung Fu is down and dirty. There are numerous survival techniques which I do not care to discuss here, but the information is readily available if you look for it.

I am constantly looking to differentiate between what is flash and what is real following the spirit of Jeet Kune Do. Many people in Kung Fu do the same, and the evolution has been tremendous. Are there some kung fu "masters" who can't fight? You betcha. I've seen footage of these guys. Are there some who can hand your your head on a platter? You betcha. Tell Gerald Okamura how wimpy he is, and he'll begin a "discussion" right away.

We Westerner types have gone into China to tell them how to do things for years. We have had no desire to listen to anything. Our medicine, religion, philosophies, and everything about us is always better. If you don't believe us, just ask us. When there is no dialogue or desire to learn from each other, there is a basic lack of respect.

I've done my share of fighting (more than I care to admit), but it was never for fun or the desire for competition. I have no desire to get in a ring, but if someone messes with my family, their skull will have a different configuration. I have a bad temper, and martial arts are not sport to me. They are deadly serious, to be used to live another day. I will use any traditional, makeshift, or modern weapon that is needed. I will use any tactic that is considered dirty, because there will be no discussion of rules afterward. The only thing that counts, is who walks away.

I respect all martial arts. People with open minds will see that there needs to be much thought put into martial success. I have heard two stories of excellent grapplers who were womping on their opponent from a full mount, but ended up fighting for their lives in the hospital when the girlfriends of the guy on the bottom stuck a knife in the grappler. This isn't a criticism of grapplers, because we do a lot in kenpo. It's just that a martial artist shouldn't get so enamored about their skill in a particular area that they lose sight of the big picture. These guys were executing great techniques, but in the end, were just a step away from shaking hands with the Devil.

People need to pursue the activities they like, and carry on a dialogue, but respect in that dialogue is important if channels are to remain open. I played football and baseball, and enjoyed these sports. I never cared for soccer, but never took it upon myself to criticise those who play it as wimps. Now, if a soccer player asked me if I lack brain cells because I played football without a helmet for too long, then I could go into an attack about their butt-grabbing ways. If they don't belittle me, I'll show them the same respect.

[Thai Bri]

There are numerous survival techniques which I do not care to discuss here, but the information is readily available if you look for it.

Now now. Don't be all secretive. Use this opportunity to improve us all.

[konghan]

Respect is the key word. I can understand where all this kung fu bashing started from & I admit that I myself have witness many kung fu fighters loosing embarassingly against other MA. The ratio is like 1 out of 10 kung fu fighter will only excell well. The problem is too many kung fu fighters are over confident, ill prepared & ill trained & get carry away by "fantasy" kung fu.

And when we see a "kung fu" guy fight successfully in tournaments the responds of the public is always "oh he is training in this, & that.... those are not kung fu moves"

There are also many "mackwoon" kung fu out there just like "macdojo" they don`t take their training of students seriously. You see, to train for combat or ring fighting requires a lot of time & effort. And I believe that ring fighters know that.

Many of this kung fu schools don`t train price fighters but many of those students recklessly & yet very bold to participate in tournaments.

Just like last March, I attended this Tiger Balm Martial Art tournament. And this local "oriental looking guy" fighting in san shou couldn`t even deliver a proper kick or punch.

The bottom line is, no MA is superior over the other it all boils down to the individual superiority. Just like Ali is superior then G. Foreman even though they are both boxers.

Very often those great fighters like Gracie will not publicly talk ill or bash other MA. Trash talk & bashing are for publicity stunt good for selling something by making the competitor look bad.

[Dim Wit Moc]

Thai Bri: Read "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu and I think you'll understand why you'll have to do your own research. You'd be surprised what Oriental minds can come up with.

[Tom Yum]

Thai Bri: Read "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu and I think you'll understand why you'll have to do your own research. You'd be surprised what Oriental minds can come up with.

The mandarin version..."Sunzi Pingfa"

Is nothing really new, considering Chinese culture dates +3,000 years, rather a rejuvination of the old. Sunzi Pingfa is a classic, but there are other great authors who wrote durring the Warring States Period and some interesting reads in the Hua and Xia era before as well as the Zhou dynasty after. Check out Zhuangzi (sometimes called Zhuang Zhou) the perfect compliment to Sunzi.

Yes you'd be suprised what Oriental minds can come up with.