kuntao

[krys]

I found it interesting to have a thread on Kuntao as there are a few south asian chinese martists on the forum, but let's talk about non commercial systems...
I'll start:
every chinese community in south east asia has Kuntao, but because of the traditionally attached secretivness of it's teachings (especially to non Chinese), kuntao may not be openly displayed to other than Chinese Indonesians-Malaysians (this isn't the case in the Philippines)... The Sanchien are basic fundamentals common to many styles (especially in Indonesia), and many depend on animal actions/attitudes. There exists both northern and southern chinese Kuntao in the area.....

[yentao]

we are familiar to the term kok sut in refering to chinese martial arts. Actually kuntao is less familiar among chinese in the philippines those familiar to kuntao live on the south like Mindanao and Visayas Johnny Chiutien for example. Actually kuntao today is further developed by non chinese in the south combining other martial arts system although they aren't popular here in manila like NCK, Tai Chi, Wushu, and Hung Gar. Wu Shu is most popular among the chinese and filipino these days. But usually so far i've seen them fight especially those residing in Baguio who fought in the recent URCC event here in the Philippines they aren't prepared against muay thai knee kicks, you can't even see them using tactics just hit and hit and look like a boxer when fighting.

[krys]

I've seen southern filipino kuntao.... the Tausug peoples know many forms of kuntao. Some look like silat other like hard shaolin kung fu but with groundfighting (lots of scisors).....

In Palawan: kinahadman sometimes called wushu kinahadman, a kind of filipino Bagua... has also some silat influence.

In Cebu there is also Kun Tat Tou, a hybrid system of Balintawak escrima and Ngo Cho Kun... Gokosha (Go familly system of Kun Tat Tou)... I believe in there are many hybrid systems of arnis-cmas in Cebu...

Unfortunately modern wushu is getting popular in the Philippines... but it is not for fighting.... in competition against other systems they get regularly trashed.... I was told there was a Kun Tat Tou fighter in the URCC? Did he win his fights?

[yentao]

I haven't watch the last even check deftac.com or urcc.com

I've seen gokosha my personal opinion is there is not much ngo cho kun i've seen it there that is original tensioning forms maybe modified but i found it lack in power. The website of it, copied alex co's naming of forms in his videos and also the form they only knew is exactly the number of forms publish by alex co. That's it, so i wouldn't know if the ngo cho kun they use really came from bengkiam or konghan or is it real because those terms usage except di sip kun or li sip kun and sam chien came from the 2 philippine based ngo cho kun schools. Johnny chiutien learned Balintawak systems. Wu shu did won in urcc2 but urcc3 they got really thrashed because of the gapplers and the muaythai fighters. Their funny actually they prefer kick which is easier to catch instead using their hands first for blocking adn striking hehehe they really are funny.

[krys]

What is adress of the gokosha website? I tried google but didn't get it.

Gokosha is the closed circle style of the founder of Kun Tat Tou.

There is one article in the rapid journal about it. I think (not sure) my silat GM is also in this volume.

I find it hard to imagine Wushu winning any mma tournaments. They usually kick because they normaly don't know how to punch. I've seen a mma event in France where a wushu fighter jumped in the air to land a kind of downard hook, result he fell down and got immediatly submitted on the ground.
Even their kicks are not really good, TKD kicks better.... Pb with all this high kicks spinning kicks is that they are easy to catch, you can also just move in or step kickly out and then move in and keep hitting them in the back or choke them-take them down from there.
Last week I sparred TKD BBs and kickboxers using only WC (with gloves,wasn't allowed to grab or catch, throw), they kept on giving me their backs throwing high spinning kicks, just had to move in and chain punch them in the back of their head....


By the way do you know if any NCK fighters are interested to fight in the next URCCs?

[yentao]

Yeah i've seen the article. The website must have been erased. It used to be on this page linked http://hok.kuntao.4mg.com/
Ask pitbull if they were intending to join.

[konghan]

What is adress of the gokosha website? I tried google but didn't get it.

Gokosha is the closed circle style of the founder of Kun Tat Tou.

There is one article in the rapid journal about it. I think (not sure) my silat GM is also in this volume.

I find it hard to imagine Wushu winning any mma tournaments. They usually kick because they normaly don't know how to punch. I've seen a mma event in France where a wushu fighter jumped in the air to land a kind of downard hook, result he fell down and got immediatly submitted on the ground.
Even their kicks are not really good, TKD kicks better.... Pb with all this high kicks spinning kicks is that they are easy to catch, you can also just move in or step kickly out and then move in and keep hitting them in the back or choke them-take them down from there.
Last week I sparred TKD BBs and kickboxers using only WC (with gloves,wasn't allowed to grab or catch, throw), they kept on giving me their backs throwing high spinning kicks, just had to move in and chain punch them in the back of their head....


By the way do you know if any NCK fighters are interested to fight in the next URCCs?

Rule number 1, never turn your back or put your back to your opponent.

[HtTKar]

Grandmaster Arthur Sikes

Great, I found a thread already about KunTao.

The more I read about Sikes, the more excited I am to begin.
Grandmaster Arthur Sikes

http://www.nasda.net/gmhistory.htm

Great Grand Master Willem Reeders as Liu Seong (at his Transition in 1990) was once said to have been "the deadliest man in the world". He held a 10th Degree in Kodakan Judo, only two other people in the world ever equaled this rank (during his lifetime). He also had mastered the deadly art of Kun Tao, the particular form of combat which is reserved for royalty, and only revealed within the family from Father to Eldest son or next immediate male descendant. Great Grand Master Reeders has descendant sons studying the arts in America and Asia, and a nephew (Master Teacher) teaching an Indonesian style of the arts in California, where his sons were studying the arts.

Great Grand Master Reeders was also the subject of study for the television series "Kung Fu," the program which originally aired during the 1970's and continues to be broadcast in syndication. The Reeders family, to this day, remains a very well known family throughout all China and especially in the martial art world.

Great Grand Master Reeders, awarded only one person, Grand Master Art Sikes, the rank of MASTER 4TH DEGREE in Chinese Kung Fu through the Liu Seong Kung Fu Federation.

Anyone here ever train with him?

[BoarSpear]

I cross train with a group led by one of Master Reeders students, he sent me this in email..

There are many stories about Grandmaster Willem Reeders, some no doubt true, some could be true but are unverifiable and some stories probably have some truth in them but are legendary creations. There are many people who have been touched by this man and each person has stories about Grandmaster Reeders unique abilities. Grandmaster Reeders shared many stories about his family and life with his students. He gave each person a part of his martial arts and his life. Either by design or just the path of his life, these people, grandmaster Reeders shared his life with, have pieces of an elaborate puzzle. It has been stated by his students that grandmaster Reeders created the broken mirror system. He gave to each of his students a piece of the mirror. Some of them were given more of the puzzle and others just a small unique part that is different than everyone else. Be that as it may, here is the story of Willem Reeders.


At the age of four, young Willem began his martial arts training as well as his formal education in private school for the wealthy Dutch families living in Indonesia. Being Dutch and part Chinese, he got into a number of fights with both the Dutch students at the school and on the way home with the other Indonesian children that would pick fights with him. His older sister was given charge of mending his clothes after he returned from school. Sister would have to repair his clothes almost daily. She was glad when her younger brother started to get more efficient at defending himself.

When master Reeders reached the age of 12; his great uncle began taking his nephew to a Shaolin Temple in China. Young Willem would train at the temple for 100 days then return back to Indonesia to continue his academic schooling. He would return every year for a 100-days of training at the temple until he was 21 years old. While at the temple he was taught the Shaolin fighting arts, Buddhism, and Chinese medicine. He also was one of 6 students (some say it was 11 students) to be taught an ancient healing/combat exercise that was much like Tai Chi Chuan. This exercise originally came from a Tibetan Buddhist temple. Master Reeders was the only one among the group of students that completed the training. Master Reeders had to go to Tibet to perform the exercise to finish his training and was approved by the temple masters. In later years master Reeders taught this exercise to his students. (Some call it Tibetan Tai Chi for lack of a better term. But it is probably an ancient Nata (Kata) of Indian Warrior Class that was used in martial training. )

Master Reeders learned empty hand fighting techniques and then was taught the Chinese weapons of martial arts. His favorite weapon was the titjiu, which is the same weapon that is called the Sai in Okinawan Karate.

Liu Siong was a renowned master of the martial arts and well-known in Indonesia for his Kuntao. He was blinded in his later years when he was attacked by a number of assailants (possible assassins from China but other say they were a group of Silat masters). One of the attackers threw broken glass in his eyes (a low deceitful act that was no doubt done to minimize master Liu Siong’s abilities to defend himself) and blinded master Siong. This only made the situation deadly and it is stated that Master Liu Siong killed all of the attackers in flurry of lethal techniques (a deceitful act repaid).
During these years, young Willem’s uncle, Liu Siong trained his nephew in both Shaolin Chuan and Kuntao. Uncle Liu Siong told his nephew Willem, if a practitioner of another system confronts you, it is best to know that system so you can fight against it. Liu Siong also encouraged his nephew to learn all the martial arts that were available to him. Master Reeders had met Ernest “Nes” De Vries in Siam during World War Two and became good friends. Nes De Vries was a student of Mas Djut, who was a Pukulan Master and Willem and Nes De Vries started sharing some fight techniques. Ernest de Vries did not care much for the Forms of the system and was more interested in fighting. According to Grandmaster Reeders, Nes De Vries was a fierce fighter and few could match his skills. Grandmaster Reeders felt much the same way about Forms and loved learning useful fighting techniques. Nes De Vries taught Master Reeders much of the Pukulan Pak Serak fighting system. Nes then introduced Master Reeders to his teacher, Mas Djut and the two studied together with the Pukulan master. Through Nes De Vries, Master Reeders met the de Thouars brothers, William, Paul, Maurice, and Victor. The de Thouars brothers were the nephews to Nes De Vries. Also during this time, Master Reeders learned a number of the other another Indonesian fighting system of Penjak Silat from several other masters. Some of the masters were Leo Sjel, Lion De Riearere, Theo Schrijn, the Soverbier brothers, Puk and Mancho, Tji Petjut, Abu Saman, and Suro Djawan. Master Reeders later studied Shotokan Karate, Judo, and Shorinji Kempo at the Budokan in Japan.

Liu Siong and Master Reeders stopped going to the Shaolin Temple at the time the Japanese invasion of China. At that time, Master Reeders joined the Dutch Navy and was assigned to a naval ship to defend the coast of Java. While he was in the Dutch Navy, he did some boxing. Master Reeders used the boxing name of “Baby Marchini” because his mother did not want him fighting in his underwear. Master Reeders could not convince his mother that boxing trunks were not his underwear so the boxing name became his path around the issue. He won all his bouts except one. He was fighting a Boxer that was know for fighting “dirty” and during the match while in a clinch the boxer elbow Master Reeder in the side of his head and knock “Baby Marchini” out. Master Reeders demanded a rematch. The boxer knowing of Master Reeder’s martial skill initially refused. Master Reeder assured the boxer and his manager the he was not out for revenge. So they agreed to a rematch. In the first round of the second fight, Master Reeders traded several punches with his advisory then stepped back and side kick the boxer in the throat, dropping him to the mat. Master Reeders was disqualified but was smiling as he left the ring.

When the Japanese invaded Java, his ship was sunk in a harbor and Master Reeders, along with a number of his shipmates taken prisoners. Young Willem resisted capture and according to the story about the incident, after the ship went down, Master Reeders was picked up in the harbor by a Japanese Naval ship. Once onboard, Master Reeders started fighting with the crewmen and it took 12 Japanese soldiers to subdue Master Reeders. Before the war, Master Reeders completed his formal academic education and had a degree in civil engineering. Young Willem was transported to Burma to a Japanese work camp and force to help design and build a bridge. Master Reeders finally escaped from the work camp and then work with the underground resistance. He returned to the bridge he had helped build and destroyed it. He would help and participated in a number of covert operations during World War II blowing up other bridges. While working with the resistance, he was given the nickname of “The Red Ant” because he was such a fierce fighter. He would often go on raids to free prisoner from the work camps. It was told that master Reeders would distract prison guards and lead them away from the camp then kill them.

After WWII, he was involved in the Indonesian fight for independence. Being Dutch/Chinese, he was on the Dutch government side and after Indonesia got its independence, he returned to Holland for a period time then left the family wealth behind and moved to Toronto, Canada. This was in the late 1950’s and there were very few people that shared the martial arts in those days. At that time, Master Reeders was well known in the Chinese and Indonesian martial arts circle as a master of the arts. He met Master Sam Wong and started working out at his Mu Dong Martial Arts school in Toronto. Grandmaster Wong and Grandmaster Reeders became good friends and together developed a Chinese martial art federation called Chunghwa Kung Fu Hui.

At that time in the 1950’s, the non-Chinese were taught one aspect of the martial arts and the Chinese were taught the “real stuff.” Master Reeders did not care for that type of treatment of people who wanting to learn the martial arts and began teaching to who ever he felt deserved to learn whether they were Chinese or not. He left Toronto and opened a school in Erie, Pa. He then later moved to Jamestown, N.Y. and upon getting to Jamestown he open a school there.

During Master Reeder’s years in western New York, many advanced gung fu sifu and karate sensei would go to master Reeders for special training. Master Reeders held an advanced black belt in Shotokan karate and a black belt in judo. Because of Master Reeders’ in-depth knowledge of the Chinese martial arts, he could brake down the karate into its Chinese roots and give a more clear and deeper understanding of its techniques.

During this time, Bruce Lee contacted Master Reeders. Bruce Lee wanted to know about Master Reeders’ Gung Fu and especially his Kuntao. At the time, Bruce Lee was developing his own system of fighting of which he called Jee Kun Do. Bruce Lee had learned about Master Reeders from his senior student, Dan Inonsanto, who knew of Master Reeders’ expertise in Chinese and Indonesian fighting arts. Master Reeders was invited to visit Bruce Lee in California. While he was visiting Bruce Lee it was believed that he showed Mr. Lee the very efficient effectiveness of Kuntao. On there first meeting, Master Reeders asked to see some of Bruce’s technique. Mr. Lee started moving around and threw punch at Master Reeders. At Bruce’s amazement, Master Reeders caught the punch with his hand in mid movement. Bruce asked Master Reeders, “How did you do that?” Master Reeders smiled and responded, “Oh, I learned that at Shaolin Temple when I was 12.” Bruce Lee had several meetings with Master Reeders over several months. It is unknown how much Master Reeders taught Bruce Lee about Kuntao but there are a number of similar aspects in Jee Kun Do to Kuntao. No doubt, if Master Reeders did teach Bruce Lee Kuntao it was done in secrecy and he was probably told not to tell where he was taught it.

Master Reeders taught mostly fighting techniques, which were Chinese Gung Fu and Silat. Some individuals were taught Master Reeders’ family Kuntao in private. In the early years, there was a Form taught that was called the Point Form. It consisted of four shorter forms that were put together to make one long form. The form was believed to be a Penjak Silat form but it is unknown what Silat system it came from. The first part was the 4 point Form, next is the 6 Point, 5 point, and 3 point. In the in later 1960’s, Master Reeders taught several forms that were the bases of the self-defense techniques of the system. One was called Hoc Chan, a bil gee form (finger strike) that emphasized one finger striking in a whipping strikes and simultaneous blocks and strikes. Another bil gee form called Ho Chan, emphasizing spear hand techniques with a low crescent kick to the leg called a dragon’s tail kick. A third form called Kweetang was taught. Kweetang was a form that came from the Kweetang Silat system. It is believe that the Kweetang Form is a number of shorter fighting technique exercises (Langkas) of the Kweetang Silat system. There were several other forms that Master Reeders taught to different individuals that were from different Chinese and Indonesian martial arts. Pak Soy (Slap Block), which is also called Bok Sai by some, is a short form that was often referred to as a family form. From his years of training in different martial arts, Master Reeders knew hundreds of different katas and forms and each person got a little something different for Master Reeders.

At one point, the Hung Loc Gung Fu School came down to Master Reeders’ school to participate in a demonstration. When they saw what the students were doing, they were amazed that Master Reeders had showed them those Chinese fighting systems. The students were told that they should count themselves lucky because the level of martial arts they were shown was not taught to just anyone especially non-Chinese.

He also felt strongly about what and whom he taught to people and that his students maintained a humble and respectful attitude. Master Reeders taught separate classes in Pukulan, an Indonesian fighting art. He taught two forms of Pukulan, Tjiminde (cha-min-dee) and Tjikalong (cha-kaw-loong). Tjikalong was considered the female system (yin) and Tjiminde the male system (yang).

In 1972, Master Reeders was being plague with sinus problems and was told by his doctor to move to the southwestern part of the USA if he wanted any relief from the infections. So without much notice, master Reeders and his family packed up their belonging and moved to Albuquerque, N.M. At that time, he left the school to one of his senior students and promoted several others to continue teaching in Western New York. Several of his senior students, he gave the right to teach to what master Reeders called the “Liu Seong Royal Gung Fu.” Couple of his senior students found out that he was moving to New Mexico and packed up and moved also. They felt that wherever their teacher went, they went too.

Master Reeders settled into his new home in Albuquerque, N.M. and start teaching Gung Fu, Silat, and what was called Tibetan Tai Chi out of his home from many years. In the 1980’s master Reeders opened a school in Albuquerque. Master Reeders lived in Albuquerque up until his passing into the next life in 1990. Some say he still is here, influencing his teachings, visiting his students and family, and teaching us all the lessons of life.

[HtTKar]

It would be awesome if he was still around, learning, and teaching. This email says he taught many students that later became instructors. Wonder where they are. Have they all gone to N.M, or do some remain in Western NY?

[sixAvexia]

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Sorry for offtopic