Tweet
I’m starting this thread because I see a large and general misconception about Traditional martial arts VS. Modern reality based self-defense systems. I here people asking "which martial art should I take for self-defense"? So, because I have some experience in both TMAs and RBSD Thought I would comment.
I was Traditionally trained in Karate, as well as other sport and TMA systems about 18 years in all. I later made the switch to combatives and reality based martial arts, and now I teach reality-based self-defense. So here are some of the comparisons that I see. This is going to be a long one, sorry.
Why is it that when discussing the effectiveness of the TMAs (rather it’s kung-fu, karate, TKD, etc) the main topic seems to be centered on techniques? What really gets me is their over inflated view of the effectiveness of their techniques. Time and time again they fail to recognize that the majority of effective techniques are almost always universal to all systems and are usually the most basic techniques in their system. Also these basic yet effective techniques only make up a small percentage of the overall number of techniques in their systems.
Traditional martial arts do not lack techniques; in fact they have an abundance of techniques more than one really needs to defend themselves. Are techniques the most important thing to learn for self-defense?
First, from the reality-based point of view there is a tiered system based on:
1) Knowledge
2) Prevention
3) Awareness
4) Avoidance
5) De-escalation
6) Physical confrontation
When it comes to the physical confrontation there are three main categories to consider. The foremost important is Mindset (killer instinct), The ability to deal effectively with fear, stress, and adrenalin, while executing a determined, aggressive, and tenacious offensive. This by far is more important than which techniques you have or how many techniques you know.
Next comes the physical attributes, this means developing and improving things like strength, speed, power, hand eye coordination, balance, timing, conditioning, flexibility, resistance to pain and injury, and overall athletic ability.
Next are the techniques with and without weapons, and when I say techniques I mean functional techniques. If all you have are techniques (and are not armed) you will most likely loose to a guy with superior mental/psychological attributes. The same results are likely to come if you are fighting a guy who just plain out classes you with his size, strength, speed, athletic ability, physical toughness, and etc.
You need all three, but the techniques although important, are the least important of the three. Many Classical systems are good at teaching technique, some are also good at developing their students physical attributes, but very few are good at developing the most important part, the mental/psychological attributes of their students.
Many classical systems also use inefficient methods of teaching, not that the student cannot become proficient or effective at some point, it just takes a lot longer than it needs too. Classical systems turn out a lot of students with proficient technical skills but the percentage of functional and effective fighters (street) is far lower.
This impractical teaching takes form in the guise of Kata/forms, bunkai, dead drills, pre-arranged drills, cooperative or predictable drills, tag like sparring- Light contact only, limited contact like as in no striking the face or below the waist, or point sparring. One dimensional sparring, sparring that only occurs in one range like with only stand up striking (punches and kicks), or ground fighting only. I call this type of sparring, dueling. Dueling can be counter productive in training and is dangerous in a real fight. A true but unfortunate fact of martial arts training is the more modes of safety placed in drills and sparring the more artificial and unrealistic the training.
An example of some predictable (or scripted) training:
1) Attackers line up on the right. Attackers stepping forward executes a right cross, the defender does a high block and counters with a right cross.
2) Knife in hand attacker steps forward with a forward thrust, defender steps to the side parries the knife hand and does fill in the______ blank move.
3) Attacker attacks with a club using an overhead swinging motion, defender steps in and executes a throw.
Even at hard fast speeds these are still predictable, it is still scripted, it is still artificial, and it is still unrealistic.
The advent of the forward thinkers such as Fairbairn, Applegate, Styers, Has really changed the way we think about self-defense and H2H combat. Later guys like Bruce Lee, and Jeff cooper came along introducing new ideas and changing the way people think about real world violence and self-defense. Today we have a whole new generation of Martial artists that think forward and outside the box like Kelly McCann, Martin Gataca, Payton Quinn, Jim Wagner, Carl Cestari, Sammy Franco, Rich Dimitri, and Geoff Thompson
Many of these guys as well as others like Darren Lauer, Bruce Siddle and Dr. Hal Breedlove, LT. Col Grossman and many others have performed extensive research, experimented, observed, and compared real life experiences. They analyzed every phase of the attack. They analyzed the criminals who are committing the attacks; they also have analyzed the victims to establish why they were chosen to be victims and how they responded. They looked at how people are trained, and how the body learns; they looked at the most efficient ways of teaching and learning physical and psychological skills, or in other words athletic performance enhancement. They went even further to find out how the body and mind responds to stress, how we are effected by fear and what happens to our ability to make proper decisions, and how our abilities to fight are effected by stress, fear, and adrenalin.
These guys embraced new technologies, they looked into psychology both behavioral and criminal, they looked at the latest studies and practices of sport science and athletic performance and embraced it. They determined what happens in real fights, they learned the “psyche” of fighting; they analyzed the physiological Reponses to different stimuli. Using all this acquired knowledge they have established what works at higher percentages and what doesn’t work, or only works at low percentages. They have found that many things that have been taught in traditional schools (techniques and tactics) just plain don’t work often enough. They have found out why they don’t work (techniques rely on predictability, fear, adrenaline, over complicated techniques/tactics, unrealistic expectations, and etc). In doing so they have debunked many TMAs.
Through a thorough study of criminology, who a criminal chooses as a victim and why, how he approaches and his whole modus operandi we can make better decisions that can keep us out of trouble in the first place, or how to appropriately respond if we find ourselves in trouble through awareness training, de-escalation, and finely the physical techniques and tactics that will give us the highest rates of success. The main teaching of the reality guys is this, problem solving, critical thinking, and decision-making, and psychological attributes. The majority of classical schools do not even enter into this very important part of training.
And as far as the techniques go, through research, study, experimentation, and real world experiences we have found that many of the so called fine motor skilled techniques simply fail when faced with stress, fear and adrenalin. The techniques that have the highest success rates are those that are gross motor skilled, offensive in nature, universal techniques (ones that work against a wide variety of attacks), and techniques that take into account the survival stress reaction and incorporate startle and flinch mechanisms into their techniques.
The biggest differences between modern reality based martial systems and the TMAs are not necessarily the techniques but the type of training and the training methods used are very different.
Other differences between the TMAs and reality based self-defense.
The TMAs idea of a self-defense situation- you except a challenge from staggering drunk at a bar or party, or you are working the doors and have to kick someone out of the club. The reality guys think of some seasoned criminal who picks you as a target, approaches, and attacks when the time and place is right for him, when he believes he has the advantage over you and he believes he will be successful.
The TMA attacker squares off, postures and everyone knows a fight is about to begin, and the TMA guys believe the fight will be like the sparring he does in training. The reality guys know that attacks are often ambushes or surprise committed when the time and place is right for the attacker. The attacker has all the advantages.
The TMA guy assumes (false sense of security) that because he has trained hard and has shown up for every practice that the fight will go according to plan and his techniques will work. The reality guy knows because of the dynamic nature and unpredictability of an attack he cannot afford to assume anything. He knows the best laid plans often falls apart, and there are no guarantees that his techniques will work, and therefore he cannot always rely solely on techniques alone.
* Or in other words what you lack in technical precision, you make up for with determination, tenacity and or weapons.
The TMA’s attacker uses his fists, and his friends generally do not come to his rescue. The Realty BG is armed with a knife, a club, or a gun, and his friends are always happy to jump in against him.
The TMA attacker is upset because his girl friend just broke up with him or he caught you looking at his girl friend. The reality guy’s attacker is a guy who has just been released form prison who is incredibly mean and tough. He has no fear of you or the law, and is intent, determined and capable of hurting or even killing you.
Many TMAs do not teach real world appropriate weapons and tend to rely on their hands and feet to fight. The reality guys know that you never fight as well in a real situation as you do in training (many things can go wrong or fall apart) so they are strongly encouraged to learn and carry real world appropriate weapons.
The TMAs weapons training are an adjunct or are secondary, they spend far less time on weapons then they do on empty hand training. The reality guys give weapons a much higher priority and spend double or even triple the time training street appropriate weapons than many TMA schools do.
The complete tactical fighter is proficient with knives, sticks/batons, guns (if applicable), and pepper sprays, improvised weapons, etc, as well as H2H combat.
“The defining characteristic of a warrior is the willingness to close with the enemy. Any training plan that does not serve to build this fundamental aggressiveness is actually Counter productive”. -Matt Larson (SFC- military combatives instructor)
I was Traditionally trained in Karate, as well as other sport and TMA systems about 18 years in all. I later made the switch to combatives and reality based martial arts, and now I teach reality-based self-defense. So here are some of the comparisons that I see. This is going to be a long one, sorry.
Why is it that when discussing the effectiveness of the TMAs (rather it’s kung-fu, karate, TKD, etc) the main topic seems to be centered on techniques? What really gets me is their over inflated view of the effectiveness of their techniques. Time and time again they fail to recognize that the majority of effective techniques are almost always universal to all systems and are usually the most basic techniques in their system. Also these basic yet effective techniques only make up a small percentage of the overall number of techniques in their systems.
Traditional martial arts do not lack techniques; in fact they have an abundance of techniques more than one really needs to defend themselves. Are techniques the most important thing to learn for self-defense?
First, from the reality-based point of view there is a tiered system based on:
1) Knowledge
2) Prevention
3) Awareness
4) Avoidance
5) De-escalation
6) Physical confrontation
When it comes to the physical confrontation there are three main categories to consider. The foremost important is Mindset (killer instinct), The ability to deal effectively with fear, stress, and adrenalin, while executing a determined, aggressive, and tenacious offensive. This by far is more important than which techniques you have or how many techniques you know.
Next comes the physical attributes, this means developing and improving things like strength, speed, power, hand eye coordination, balance, timing, conditioning, flexibility, resistance to pain and injury, and overall athletic ability.
Next are the techniques with and without weapons, and when I say techniques I mean functional techniques. If all you have are techniques (and are not armed) you will most likely loose to a guy with superior mental/psychological attributes. The same results are likely to come if you are fighting a guy who just plain out classes you with his size, strength, speed, athletic ability, physical toughness, and etc.
You need all three, but the techniques although important, are the least important of the three. Many Classical systems are good at teaching technique, some are also good at developing their students physical attributes, but very few are good at developing the most important part, the mental/psychological attributes of their students.
Many classical systems also use inefficient methods of teaching, not that the student cannot become proficient or effective at some point, it just takes a lot longer than it needs too. Classical systems turn out a lot of students with proficient technical skills but the percentage of functional and effective fighters (street) is far lower.
This impractical teaching takes form in the guise of Kata/forms, bunkai, dead drills, pre-arranged drills, cooperative or predictable drills, tag like sparring- Light contact only, limited contact like as in no striking the face or below the waist, or point sparring. One dimensional sparring, sparring that only occurs in one range like with only stand up striking (punches and kicks), or ground fighting only. I call this type of sparring, dueling. Dueling can be counter productive in training and is dangerous in a real fight. A true but unfortunate fact of martial arts training is the more modes of safety placed in drills and sparring the more artificial and unrealistic the training.
An example of some predictable (or scripted) training:
1) Attackers line up on the right. Attackers stepping forward executes a right cross, the defender does a high block and counters with a right cross.
2) Knife in hand attacker steps forward with a forward thrust, defender steps to the side parries the knife hand and does fill in the______ blank move.
3) Attacker attacks with a club using an overhead swinging motion, defender steps in and executes a throw.
Even at hard fast speeds these are still predictable, it is still scripted, it is still artificial, and it is still unrealistic.
The advent of the forward thinkers such as Fairbairn, Applegate, Styers, Has really changed the way we think about self-defense and H2H combat. Later guys like Bruce Lee, and Jeff cooper came along introducing new ideas and changing the way people think about real world violence and self-defense. Today we have a whole new generation of Martial artists that think forward and outside the box like Kelly McCann, Martin Gataca, Payton Quinn, Jim Wagner, Carl Cestari, Sammy Franco, Rich Dimitri, and Geoff Thompson
Many of these guys as well as others like Darren Lauer, Bruce Siddle and Dr. Hal Breedlove, LT. Col Grossman and many others have performed extensive research, experimented, observed, and compared real life experiences. They analyzed every phase of the attack. They analyzed the criminals who are committing the attacks; they also have analyzed the victims to establish why they were chosen to be victims and how they responded. They looked at how people are trained, and how the body learns; they looked at the most efficient ways of teaching and learning physical and psychological skills, or in other words athletic performance enhancement. They went even further to find out how the body and mind responds to stress, how we are effected by fear and what happens to our ability to make proper decisions, and how our abilities to fight are effected by stress, fear, and adrenalin.
These guys embraced new technologies, they looked into psychology both behavioral and criminal, they looked at the latest studies and practices of sport science and athletic performance and embraced it. They determined what happens in real fights, they learned the “psyche” of fighting; they analyzed the physiological Reponses to different stimuli. Using all this acquired knowledge they have established what works at higher percentages and what doesn’t work, or only works at low percentages. They have found that many things that have been taught in traditional schools (techniques and tactics) just plain don’t work often enough. They have found out why they don’t work (techniques rely on predictability, fear, adrenaline, over complicated techniques/tactics, unrealistic expectations, and etc). In doing so they have debunked many TMAs.
Through a thorough study of criminology, who a criminal chooses as a victim and why, how he approaches and his whole modus operandi we can make better decisions that can keep us out of trouble in the first place, or how to appropriately respond if we find ourselves in trouble through awareness training, de-escalation, and finely the physical techniques and tactics that will give us the highest rates of success. The main teaching of the reality guys is this, problem solving, critical thinking, and decision-making, and psychological attributes. The majority of classical schools do not even enter into this very important part of training.
And as far as the techniques go, through research, study, experimentation, and real world experiences we have found that many of the so called fine motor skilled techniques simply fail when faced with stress, fear and adrenalin. The techniques that have the highest success rates are those that are gross motor skilled, offensive in nature, universal techniques (ones that work against a wide variety of attacks), and techniques that take into account the survival stress reaction and incorporate startle and flinch mechanisms into their techniques.
The biggest differences between modern reality based martial systems and the TMAs are not necessarily the techniques but the type of training and the training methods used are very different.
Other differences between the TMAs and reality based self-defense.
The TMAs idea of a self-defense situation- you except a challenge from staggering drunk at a bar or party, or you are working the doors and have to kick someone out of the club. The reality guys think of some seasoned criminal who picks you as a target, approaches, and attacks when the time and place is right for him, when he believes he has the advantage over you and he believes he will be successful.
The TMA attacker squares off, postures and everyone knows a fight is about to begin, and the TMA guys believe the fight will be like the sparring he does in training. The reality guys know that attacks are often ambushes or surprise committed when the time and place is right for the attacker. The attacker has all the advantages.
The TMA guy assumes (false sense of security) that because he has trained hard and has shown up for every practice that the fight will go according to plan and his techniques will work. The reality guy knows because of the dynamic nature and unpredictability of an attack he cannot afford to assume anything. He knows the best laid plans often falls apart, and there are no guarantees that his techniques will work, and therefore he cannot always rely solely on techniques alone.
* Or in other words what you lack in technical precision, you make up for with determination, tenacity and or weapons.
The TMA’s attacker uses his fists, and his friends generally do not come to his rescue. The Realty BG is armed with a knife, a club, or a gun, and his friends are always happy to jump in against him.
The TMA attacker is upset because his girl friend just broke up with him or he caught you looking at his girl friend. The reality guy’s attacker is a guy who has just been released form prison who is incredibly mean and tough. He has no fear of you or the law, and is intent, determined and capable of hurting or even killing you.
Many TMAs do not teach real world appropriate weapons and tend to rely on their hands and feet to fight. The reality guys know that you never fight as well in a real situation as you do in training (many things can go wrong or fall apart) so they are strongly encouraged to learn and carry real world appropriate weapons.
The TMAs weapons training are an adjunct or are secondary, they spend far less time on weapons then they do on empty hand training. The reality guys give weapons a much higher priority and spend double or even triple the time training street appropriate weapons than many TMA schools do.
The complete tactical fighter is proficient with knives, sticks/batons, guns (if applicable), and pepper sprays, improvised weapons, etc, as well as H2H combat.
“The defining characteristic of a warrior is the willingness to close with the enemy. Any training plan that does not serve to build this fundamental aggressiveness is actually Counter productive”. -Matt Larson (SFC- military combatives instructor)
, but here are some points: 
.
Comment