Suthern Praying Mantis Kung Fu

[SOCOMSASGsG9]

ok, ive heard alot of stuff on Southern Praying Mantis Kung Fu (SPM for short), both good and bad. im setting this up to talk about mantis, if anyone wants questions answered, explanations, or just to let me know that im not the only mantis practitioner here, leave some posts.

also, if anyone has questions as to the effectiveness of tai chi chuan as a fighting system, feel free to post.

im also troubled at what i have read, calling SPM ineffective. if anyone has anything to say as to that point, i would welcome it.

thanks.

[Mr. Gordo]

SOCOMSASGsG9,

I cross trained in Southern Mantis for two years with a friend who trained with Louie Jack Man in Philadelphia. I learned Sam Bo Gin (3 step arrow) and 18 point. I also learned the two man drills and set for each form. I didn't agree with holding the breath when practicing 3 step arrow, and thought it to be very unhealthy and a very crude form of chi kung. Great fighting system that's underrated, and much more functional than Wing Chun. Combine Southern Mantis with boxing and you've got one hell of a standup fighting art. Though I no longer practice mantis, I enjoyed dabbling in it...it really enhanced my standup abilities. With whom and where do you study?


mr. gordo

[SOCOMSASGsG9]

mantis

i train with Russel Chell in Trenton, New Jersey. im learned som bo gin, and som bo fon non choy (my chinese is not all that good).
i appreciate hearing from somone who approves of the system, but there is one thing i noticed, in regards to the breathing. in the 3 step arrow, we are not taught to hold our breaths. i dont know if i am mis-understanding your point, or if you were taught it slightly different than us, but the way i was tought the 3 step arrow, you breath in and chop step, and then breath out everytime you shoot, so you have very little breath by the time you end your last shoot.

im not a kung fu master, and i dont know qi gong or even claim to understand it, but as with the surface, hard fighting techniques that mantis teaches, i find them to be among the most useful i have ever encountered.

its good to hear from somone who thinks highly of mantis.

SOCOM

[Mr. Gordo]

I was taught two methods for the breathing:

1. Hold breath for entire form

2. Inhale once before commencing form, and release breath on the 3 power strike all three times.


I stopped practicing S. Mantis when I started with my Hsing-I / Ba-Gua teacher.

As far as the short hand southern systems, go....more mobile and powerful than Wing Chun, and more flexibility of movement than Bak Mei. As a standup art by itself, it is OK.....but it can be supercharged with kali or boxing. Best to you with your studies.


mr. gordo

[SOCOMSASGsG9]

well, as i said, i was taught the second method of breathing. also, i have found very little systems to be fully complete by themselves, so i supplement mantis with yang style tai chi.

best to you as well.

SOCOM

[krys]

.more mobile and powerful than Wing Chun,

??

Depends who practices Wing Chun.... if you train Wing Chun properly you will become mobile and powerfull.

I had the opportunity to spare a praying-mantis-ngo cho fighter who also does silat in the Philippines, he didn't impress me at all........my Gm had to ask me to stop hitting him in the head.

[SOCOMSASGsG9]

question, was he northern mantis, or southern, and what was he doing in the philippines? also, as you said with wing chung, it depends on the person. perhaps this person had no idea what he was doing. there is a person in my mantis class who also does wing chung, and according to him they are two very similar systems, which leads me to believe that the person you spared with didnt have any idea what he was doing.

also question, is praying mantis ngo cho two different styles, or one style. because if it is one, than the person you spared was not southern mantis.

[Tom Yum]

Tell us more about the mantis style, the training, and cool cultural stuff.

There's a mantis stylist out there from Venezuela who was able to compete in professional thai boxing and won some kind of event. Did he fight the best guys? Probably not, but that's still no easy feat.

[Broadsword2004]

Hmmm, there is a Seven-Star Praying Mantis Kung Fu school here in Rochester, is that style any good??? I'm debating between that, Capoeira, and a boxing-wrestling-grappling-kickboxing class

[Mr. Gordo]

Depends who practices Wing Chun.... if you train Wing Chun properly you will become mobile and powerfull.

I trained 10 years of Wing Chun under the lineage of Hawkins Cheung. I can assure you, authentic kwong sai jook lum mantis is much more mobile and powerful than Wing Chun. The footwork drills of S. mantis has similarities to the triangle footwork of kali....Wing Chun has basic linear and sidestepping footwork, but they lack in back-angular footwork which is crucial.

Hmmm, there is a Seven-Star Praying Mantis Kung Fu school here in Rochester, is that style any good??? I'm debating between that, Capoeira, and a boxing-wrestling-grappling-kickboxing class

7 Star is not the same. I think most northern external styles pretty much suck. More flash than the ability to throw down. Take the boxing/wrestling/grappling/kickboxing class.



mr. gordo

[SOCOMSASGsG9]

wow, an hour since i was last on, and 3 messages. ok, first, mr. gordo has the right ideas. 7 star mantis is different from northern and southern. i wouldnt say it sucks (although, keep in mind this is based on my very limited experience.) northern styles are very foot oriented, and northern mantis can be very low to the ground, and it makes use of high kicks, which southern mantis doesnt. southern mantis teached alot of low kicks.

Broadsword, i would try them all out, a few classes each, and then make your call. capoeira was developed by brazilian slaves who werent allowed to learn martail arts. it was disguised as a dance. other than that i dont know much about it. i would say steer away from the kickboxing, just becasue in my experience that is less a martial art, and more a sport. you know what i mean? i know people who do kickboxing who have no grounds to defend themselves whatsoever. so i would say try them out.

tom yum, you wanted to know more about southern mantis. here it is. it was developed by a monk who was travelling for years trying to become enlightened because he could never beat his older brother in sparring matches. finally he found a mantis fighting a cicadia (some say a bird, i dont know which is true, i wasnt there). the mantis destroyed the much larger.....thing. so the monk took the mantis and poked it with sticks (dont tell PETA) and came up with mantis. so he went home, beat up his brother, and together they developed mantis.

that was the condenced version.

training includes doing the forms (som bo gin, som bo fon non choy) and excercises (chopstep, chung dil chop). it also includes two man exercises called mor kiews to develop our ability to match our opponents movement and power (my teachers teacher, sigung henry poo yee describes it as having eyes on your hands, moving only be feeling instead of seeing your opponent, which is a concept that is relativly unique, although i believe wing chung teaches somthing like that). we also do tai chi push hands, because it is like mor kiews. before classes i do sparring with my friends, although its not a part of the regular class, as we are all relativly young and inexperienced, and wed probably get killed if we reallly did hard core sparring. mantis is also very focused on footwork, but as i said before, not kicks.

mantis also teaches the use of weapons, like staff and butterfly swords, although i am far to inexperienced to learn mantis weapons (which isnt to say my tai chi instructor doesnt teach me weapons).

if there are any other quesions i could answer, i would be happy to. i love southern mantis, and i love talking about it as well.

[krys]

question, was he northern mantis, or southern, and what was he doing in the philippines?.

I have no idea of the kind of mantis style... he is filipino.
There is a ngo cho kun master there who also teaches praying mantis, I am also interested to learn ngo cho kun there too... actually quite a few good cma instructors live there.

also, as you said with wing chung, it depends on the person. perhaps this person had no idea what he was doing.

That is possible .....

also question, is praying mantis ngo cho two different styles, or one style. because if it is one, than the person you spared was not southern mantis.

Ngo Cho Kun (five ancestor boxing) is a different style. It is very efficient if practiced seriously.

[krys]

I trained 10 years of Wing Chun under the lineage of Hawkins Cheung. I can assure you, authentic kwong sai jook lum mantis is much more mobile and powerful than Wing Chun. The footwork drills of S. mantis has similarities to the triangle footwork of kali....Wing Chun has basic linear and sidestepping footwork, but they lack in back-angular footwork which is crucial.

I am from the Yp Ching (Yp Man's second son) lineage. Wing Chun has also circular footwork, back triangular footwork too. If you have to step back (which means you are in trouble), use triangular footwork.

Arnis (what you call kali) has not only triangular footwork, this is very common among many styles... but there are a few who use different patterns.

[SOCOMSASGsG9]

well krys, i could only theorize that he wasnt southern mantis. if he was fillinpino instead of chinese i doubt he had a chance to study southern. in adition, (im not sure of this, but i think that) there are not mantis schools in china. when the last grandmaster came over to the US during or after world war 2, mantis at the time was still a secret system. it didnt become public untill the 70's or 80's, and by that time the last grandmaster, and the current GM henry poo yee were in america, where they set up schools. as of now, there are somthing like 12 schools in the world, 11 in america, and 1 in israel. so i tend to doubt that the man you sparred was southern mantis.

[krys]

if he was fillinpino instead of chinese i doubt he had a chance to study southern.

There are many chinese in the Philippines, most came from Fukien province.
There are lots of masters there but many hide they know kf or don't teach openly.
In the past it was quite difficult to learn kf in the Philippines if you weren't chinese....