How do kungfu guys fight Boxers ?

[Tameo]

Husan u think that kung-fu practitioners are all little wussies who punch thin air all day? Were the FUk did you get the idea that ALL Kung-fu practitioners do that? In my kung-fu academy we have Cardio classes, full contact classes, sparring classes with and withought equipement, circuit training and more. When ever I pair up with an opponent to practice some movements, I tell them to punch as hard as they can and I dont mind being hit.

[Broadsword2004]

HuSanYan, you're not supposed to train your body that hard every week, especially at your age!! And you're not just supposed to get "slammed" in the midsection like that every week too, that's a great way to end up with some serious kidney damage and such later in life. Even Muay Thai boxers in training don't hurt themselves, nor do professional fighters. They spar, but keep it very light contact, but they train properly, so that when the real fight comes, they are ready. They spar lightly so that they do not get injured.

Don't believe that old baloney that you need to get seriously bruised up each week to be a good fighter. You only do that once in awhile to make sure you have the conditioning right, but doing it all the time is very, very unhealthy.

If you fight hard and get injured every week, you're going to end up with a lot of problems later on likely.

Also, not all kungfu practitioners are weenies. A good boxer against a very skilled kungfu practitioner will get the crap kicked out of them most likely. That is why you don't see any boxers in the UFC; you see guys who having boxing, kicking, and grappling skills.

Now kungfu styles these days may be watered down as hell, but a good kungfu person that is in a REAL kungfu style for fighting, who spars a lot, and has fought full-contact, and fought against multiple styles even, isn't gonna go into any Plum-Flower Fist Side-Stepping 8-Animals whatever type of thing, they are gonna punch, strike, and kick like any fighter will. And against a boxer, they will distance them with kicks if need be and the boxer is gonna be hard-pressed with such an opponent if all they have are punches.

And no you don't watch for the punch, you watch the shoulders or elbows to tell how the punch is going to come in, as Tameo said above.

[Garland]

[QUOTE=Tom Yum]

"If they both close the distance, the muay thai guy will go straight into the clinch & knee/elbow, even though he might know a little boxing, because he will loose on the punching game."

um...not necessarily. Most Thai boxers train western style boxing for their hand work, and several thai champs (and even some fighters who couldn't hack it in Muay Thai) have switched over to western boxing, and done VERY well.
A good Muay Thai guy is proficient in all standing ranges, and because they generally train (especially in Thailand) harder than almost anyone on the planet save Olympians, they tend to do very well in boxing.
Seriously...there are only a few ways to throw a cross, hook, or a jab...and when you add that to the rest of the Muay Thai arsenal...no contest almost every single time, the only deciding factors at that point are agressiveness and intelegence.
Seriously, boxers...what would you think if somebody cracked a kick into your leg and followed it up with a cross-hook combo? You'd most likely drop your hands after the kick as an unintentional reaction, and end up getting jarred by the cross and starred by the hook.

[Garland]

Also...in a real street fight, I've seen TKD guys end up in boxing stances after getting punched in the face, and boxers try to wrestle people to the ground. A good fighter is efficient in every range of combat, but also understands their limitations...a true fighter knows his limitations at heart, but neglects them and fights on even in unfamiliar ranges.
It's all about the fight itself. The struggle is the glory, and it teaches you a lot about yourself. Any sort of competition is good for you as a fighter, from poker to volleyball, to rugby, to toughman competitions, your always learning and sharpening skills, and, even better than technique, HEART.
It is all about SPIRIT and HEART. Who cares if you lose, so long as the other guy's along for the same hospital ride.

[koto_ryu]

Also, not all kungfu practitioners are weenies. A good boxer against a very skilled kungfu practitioner will get the crap kicked out of them most likely. That is why you don't see any boxers in the UFC; you see guys who having boxing, kicking, and grappling skills.

You see even less kung fu practitioners, Broadsword A good majority of UFC fighters have done some extensive boxing training, though I can only remember one instance of a kung fu practitioner entering the Octagon.

[shirase]

"And boxers do not sidestep the same way they do in TWC"

? you act like every boxer acts on a written script. Boxing is an awesome sport, and their training is intense, but it definitely isnt as defined as you act like it is. I like watching boxing and have noticed that almost all the boxers act in different ways. Some guys do hard strides like they mean business, some guys hop around like crazy, and some guys have kind of more flowing footwork(think float like a butterfly). Im not trying to disrespect you, im just saying that alot of fighters bring unique personal aspects to the ring so you shouldnt hold preconcieved notions before a fight. Imagine you do a paksao(sp?) and sidestep him and hes already hopped back 2 steps and is starting to run at you like a wild boar. Its a bad idea to fight like "he punches i block i kick in nuts" because its not that simple, people are dynamic!

[koto_ryu]

"And boxers do not sidestep the same way they do in TWC"

? you act like every boxer acts on a written script. Boxing is an awesome sport, and their training is intense, but it definitely isnt as defined as you act like it is. I like watching boxing and have noticed that almost all the boxers act in different ways. Some guys do hard strides like they mean business, some guys hop around like crazy, and some guys have kind of more flowing footwork(think float like a butterfly).

Exactly, there are many different boxing styles you'd have to cope with. There's the traditional stand-up (what you think of when you hear the word boxing), the crouch (Jack Dempsey), the crab (Mike Tyson), and the dancer (Muhammad Ali), and that's just right off the top of my head.

[Tameo]

"And boxers do not sidestep the same way they do in TWC"

? you act like every boxer acts on a written script. Boxing is an awesome sport, and their training is intense, but it definitely isnt as defined as you act like it is. I like watching boxing and have noticed that almost all the boxers act in different ways. Some guys do hard strides like they mean business, some guys hop around like crazy, and some guys have kind of more flowing footwork(think float like a butterfly). Im not trying to disrespect you, im just saying that alot of fighters bring unique personal aspects to the ring so you shouldnt hold preconcieved notions before a fight. Imagine you do a paksao(sp?) and sidestep him and hes already hopped back 2 steps and is starting to run at you like a wild boar. Its a bad idea to fight like "he punches i block i kick in nuts" because its not that simple, people are dynamic!

When i fight I try to follow TWC theory. That doesnt mean all my movements will be exactly the same as done in the forms, but it means that I will do a certain technique or step when facing a certain attack or counter. It doesnt mean i will always be able to do what theory says, but there are lots of options. EXP I do a pak-sao with a sidestep. If boxer hopps back 2 steps he is in kicking range and therefore sidestep position is really good for delivering kicks from. As soon as I see him hopping back id kick. When he rushed in again with a lot of fource i sidestep other way with another counter etc. I know its not as easy as it looks but I always try to follow theory in fighting or sparring.

[Tameo]

I respect boxers for their hard training and I dont think that boxers suck or anything. I think that in a fight it all comes down to who is the most agressive. If a experienced yet really unagressive TWC fighter went up against a not so experienced boxer but the boxer was really agressive id put my money on the boxer. If they were both as agressive then Id put my money on the TWC guy because i believe that TWC technique is more effective.

[Tom Yum]

The human eye takes about .2 of a second to see something comming. A punch can be faster than .2 of a second therefore the best way to see punches comming is to watch the elbow. By watching the elbow you can determine wether it is going to be a hook, a jab, or uppercut.

So you expect a boxer to come up and throw one big hook or uppercut at you, telegraphing his body with his chin up out and ready and his other arm just dangling by his side or worse at his hips ?

Step in the ring against a boxer of equivalent training time as you in wingchun, bring your video camera.

You could wear MMA type gloves that will still allow trapping and you can hit with closed fists or palms, maybe allow kicks to the body or thigh. That's pretty gutsy, but you'll learn probably learn alot...

I'm not saying wc is crap, because frankly its not. I'm saying that wc should be used in MMA competitions and improved on from those results. Weapon arts like silat and kali are doing it (with pads thank God) and empty handed arts (boxing, muay thai, kyokushin, san shou, jujitsu, wrestling and even some traditional arts....xingyi, judo) put their skills to the test.

I have sparred against a pure wingchun stylist who probably has about the same experience, but it was with muay thai rules. They're not used to the impact from low kicks. They have pretty good defense against one or two punches, but when you start mixing it up to create openings, that's where it seems to fall apart IMHO. I think its due to lack of sparring different kinds of fighters.

Every art has techniques that are too dangerous for the ring, but they don't depend on them.

[shirase]

it depends on what kind of experience though. If the TWC guy only went to TWC competitions and the boxer only went to boxer competitions i think the boxer would win. But if the TWC guy went around to boxing competitions and tested his skills against other styles then i think he would have a chance. Ive got to say that I thinkthe TWC techinques are pretty good for single attacks, but their use would be lessened against boxing combinations and constant quick jabs.

[Tom Yum]

Husan u think that kung-fu practitioners are all little wussies who punch thin air all day? Were the FUk did you get the idea that ALL Kung-fu practitioners do that? In my kung-fu academy we have Cardio classes, full contact classes, sparring classes with and withought equipement, circuit training and more. When ever I pair up with an opponent to practice some movements, I tell them to punch as hard as they can and I dont mind being hit.

Are your full contact classes san shou or pure wingchun? big difference.

[sanjiyan99]

Alright, I feel the need to jump in and say this. Considered all things are equal, the winner will be determined by who is first to connect a clean hit. MOST kung fu schools I have visited in the San Francisco Bay Area (where I work) teach the applications of techniques in this manner -- you throw ONE punch at your sifu, he counters with his technique. Of course, you ALLOW him to do this. Then, you are paired with another student to repeat the same thing over and over again. How can you apply the same technique when your opponent is throwing COMBOS? Also, whenever they would spar, each and every one of them would all revert to kickboxing. This is why I believe that most kung fu styles are to be applied DEFENSIVELY.

Imagine Bruce Lee going up against a Joe Lewis or Muhammad Ali, then imagine all things (age, physique, weight, etc) being equal between the two of them. If Bruce is able to connect and follow up, then he stands a better chance of winning. However, once Ali gives him ONE-TWO, that's it.

When coming up against a thai boxer, never duck your head to avoid a blow -- this sets up the head PERFECTLY for the knee!

[Tameo]

So you expect a boxer to come up and throw one big hook or uppercut at you, telegraphing his body with his chin up out and ready and his other arm just dangling by his side or worse at his hips ?
.

No i expect boxer to come in with a a jab, jab, cross, hook or something like that and watching the elbows will help me see the punches as i position myself on his blind side and counterattack.

[Broadsword2004]

Yes that is true koto-ryu, but I mean there still ARE some very good kungfu people out there, and of those, against boxing, they will most likely win if they are skilled.

Kungfu in the UFC is different then a skilled kungfu guy against a skilled boxer, because all the boxer can do is punch; the kungfu person will kick and punch, and grapple to (it depends I guess).

A kungfu person in the UFC is going to develop their boxing and grappling and kicking skills very good if they are smart, but that will probably mean more training in non-kungfu arts than the kungfu itself, which is why I don't think there is too much kungfu in the UFC today.