Grappling vs. Striking in streets

[Nemes1s]

didn't he do western boxing and fencing as well?

[sherwinc]

Note:
Bruce did Boxing, Fencing, Wreslting and Thai. He did them in Kung Fu way. Now they ARE Kung Fu. Real not fake convinced?

and many imitated to learn that type of Jeet Kune Do but it failed in UFC match, so to make the story short...... Bruce is very wise......

[koto_ryu]

and many imitated to learn that type of Jeet Kune Do but it failed in UFC match, so to make the story short...... Bruce is very wise......

So because it failed once in the UFC ring, it's worthless? If so, we should all take up pro wrestling cause that's what defeated the Gracies

[Oraenor]

So because it failed once in the UFC ring, it's worthless? If so, we should all take up pro wrestling cause that's what defeated the Gracies

Pro wrestler?
so who was this pro wrestler, that shamrock fellow?

[koto_ryu]

Pro wrestler?
so who was this pro wrestler, that shamrock fellow?

Sakuraba, "The Gracie Hunter." Yes he may say his style is submission wrestling now, but before that he was popular in Japan as a pro wrestler as that and a few striking arts is all he really did.

[samekh]

Do you know anything about Bruce Lee? He MOVED ON from Kung Fu and developed his concept of Jeet Kune Do. Studying many many other arts in the process.

Like Boxing, Judo, Wrestling, Fencing, Thai Boxing etc. etc. etc.

If anyone is an advert for Kung Fu being lacking, it is Bruce Lee.

Look, Bruce Lee did not move on from Kung Fu, he never completed it. Why then did he go back and try to film his teacher doing the bil gee years after he closed his JKD schools? Because he could not fill the gap with pieces of other Martial arts.(that's why there was bad blood between them for years after that... Yip man wouldn't allow it because Bruce Lee never became a senior student... so yes I know a few things about Bruce Lee). And he only read books about the other Martial arts. STUDIED BOOKS. Not learned other Martial arts. I guess Kung fu is so lacking even Bruce Lee eventually realized he should finish. I think you meant that on a master level, Bruce Lee's kung fu was lacking. He never beat any chinese masters. He only fought street punks and Karate guys.
You see, that's why he seemed so masterful, no one knew kung fu in th US but the chinese before BL came over here. And being only a five year student of kung fu, he dazzled everyone... swept through the tournaments. Kung fu seems pretty amazing if you look at the real story.
Remember, all of those martial arts you mentioned have their origin in Kung Fu.

[Nemes1s]

I don't think Jeet Kune Do or kung fu was really ment to be used in the streets then in a ring or cage, but people sometimes would like to use it in the ring but that's them not JKD or kungfu. if brucee Lee wanted to be in a cage fight I believe he wouldve been trying to do something tottally different nor would I think he would call it JKD ( the way of the intercepting fist )

[sherwinc]

Bruce Lee's kung fu was lacking. He never beat any chinese masters. He only fought street punks and Karate guys.
You see, that's why he seemed so masterful, no one knew kung fu in th US but the chinese before BL came over here. And being only a five year student of kung fu, he dazzled everyone... swept through the tournaments. Kung fu seems pretty amazing if you look at the real story.
Remember, all of those martial arts you mentioned have their origin in Kung Fu.

Good Post!!!!!!

now i finally learn again something that Bruce Lee never defeated any Chinese KungFu Masters

[Bruised&Bashed]

Do you know anything about Bruce Lee? He MOVED ON from Kung Fu and developed his concept of Jeet Kune Do. Studying many many other arts in the process.

Like Boxing, Judo, Wrestling, Fencing, Thai Boxing etc. etc. etc.

If anyone is an advert for Kung Fu being lacking, it is Bruce Lee.

Dude, you have got a LOT to learn. As you are such a fan of Bruce Lee and his 'real' fighting, I think you should plan a private one-on-one with samekh so you leant a bit about him first!

Also, if you really 'knew' Bruce Lee you'd know that should you meet him in the afterlife he is going to kick your ass for being so intolerant of other people's styles and arts (especially his core kung fu!)

Now, put you ego away and play nice...you're making a tart of yourself!

In answer to Tameo's original thread, you should have a good grasp of both grappling and hand to hand combat as you never know what's going to happen. No two fights are ever the same.

As far as the police goes, I'm not sure of the law in other countries, but here in England the police's job is to restrain and remove offenders from society, so they have to use the 'least force required'. An immobilising armlock is much less force than a punch or a kick, which could injure or break something and the police could end up in legal trouble as the victim could sue for excessive use of force. So they are taught imobilising restraining techniques. But they also give them a big stick in case...

For anyone else, hitting hard and fast is better, but only if you are confident you can ko him or at least put him down for long enough to get the hell out of there. Otherwise, you might just piss him off and open up an invite for an even harder kicking. If you think your hit's not good enough for that, then I would get some grappling skills under your belt. Actually, I would recommend that anyway....partly coz it's an extra arrow for your bow, but also coz it's as much fun as punching and kicking

And yes, WC is not good on the ground, like many hand to hand styles. However, one of WC's biggest faults is the fact that, unlike the other hand to hand styles, it tries to get round this hole by saying it can teach you never to get into a grappling situation. All I can say is, don't believe the hype! 90%of fights end up on the deck, from all walks of life.

At one of the schools I used to go to, whenever a good WC guy got knocked over by a WC beginner who happened to have done some high level wrestling and pulled off a takedown, and then proceeded to push him around on the floor like a cat does a mouse, my sifu was always blaming the lack of a good stance, the wrong application of energy, the wrong footwork or not restraining the other guy through correct positioning as the main cause. This might be right (Actually I think all these things plus the ability to hit him hard enough to stop the takedown are what's needed), but as these things are so hard to get 100% right and can take years to perfect, most of us WC guys are woefully open to attack from this sort of thing. I've done WC for ten years and hold classes and can move my way out of most attacks, but every now and again, one gets me and it's only because I've learned judo and ju jitsu that I can deal with it. My chi sao sensitivity training helps in the application of grappling, which is a good thing, but you need to know how to grapple in the first place. Grapplers are as frighteningly good trappers as WC guys on the ground!

Learn to wrestle. It's not all gay spandex....that's just my school.

[Thai Bri]

You know as much about Bruce Lee as you do about the British Police self defence course.

Funnily enough, so do I.

[Bruised&Bashed]

Really?

And there's me thinking that with my father an ex-policeman and my sister currently in the police, I might have a bit of background knowledge. Damn, they've been lying to me all these years...

So tell me about the British Police Self Defense course?

[Thai Bri]

Well, since I've taken it and regualrly have to requalify because I am a serving Police Officer myself (18 years done, 12 to go), I could tell you alot about it.

I rarely claim a competence in something that my dad or my sister does. In fact they can do all kinds of things that I can't, and being related to them doesn't give me any magical abilities at all.

[Nemes1s]

I'm confused. I understand Grappling has it's ways to trap people into putting them on to the ground, but the thing is I'm also aware that WC has it's ways to counter when a grappler trys to do his thing and also how to get out of the ground as well if the wc some how falls on to the floor or gets tackled down. so wouldn't it really come down to who's the better man instead of who has the better style because I hear alot of this and that about wc fellas not having ways to go around grappling as if a wc guy will just lay there and get beaten

[Bruised&Bashed]

Well, since I've taken it and regualrly have to requalify because I am a serving Police Officer myself (18 years done, 12 to go), I could tell you alot about it.

I rarely claim a competence in something that my dad or my sister does. In fact they can do all kinds of things that I can't, and being related to them doesn't give me any magical abilities at all.

Well, well. Another copper! Seems I'm surrounded by them.

Magical abilities?

Being a policeman, you'll obviously be well versed in remembering factual accounts and actual statements of people and as such would not go round putting words into people's mouths that they haven't said, such as 'getting magical abilities from being relatives'. Not the last time I checked anyway.

Tameo asked why the police always seem to restrain and not punch. I think you'll find I said that the police try to use grappling and restraining techniques as much as possible as they are there to restrain and remove offenders as 'peaceably' as possible. Having to start punching and kicking is an absolute last resort. Now, both my sister and father agree with that statement. In fact I have had this discussion with them many times. Coz I too was interested to know.

Both have told me to mention section 3(1) of the Criminal Law Act 1967 as applicable to the police (to remind you, she said, but then she is cheeky!) and my sis was kind enough to paraphrase it for me.

"A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large"

Section 117 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 police officers are authorised to use REASONABLE force. Again, thanks sis.

So, you've got a pisshead on the streets getting leary and argumentative and you've got a couple of constables there who can either try and restrain him as a first course or just try and beat the living shit out of him. Or restrain him and then beat the shit out of him. Either of those last two reasonable force in those circumstances?

So, you see officer, I'm not claiming competence in what they do, I'm only passing on what they, as former and current policemen/women, have told me. Just trying to answer Tameo's question. The fact that they have been telling me this for years can either mean two things. Either they have some basis in fact or else they are lying. I suppose also they could be just plain wrong, but then they'd have to be stupid as it's their day job and as my sister is 8 years in the force and my dad was in CID, I doubt that is the case.

So I'd appreciate a little less gross misrepresentation of what I'm saying...save that for the next young offender you haul in.

Or does your constabulary advocate beating the crap out of someone as a FIRST course of action? If so, my sister is interested to know where you work!

Maybe you work in Manchester....

http://www.channel4.com/news/2004/02/week_3/20_police.html

[sdizier]

Grappling on the street

Lets face it; street combat is usually a cowards fighting hall. You will rarely find yourself in a one on one situation on the street. That means grappling and ending up on the ground will be dangerous. Yes you may end up there without your liking :-) BUT I think learning to avoid the ground is more important since you are better able to defend yourself from multi-attackers while you are standing.

http://www.thelawofthefist.com