Do soldiers make better Martial Artists?

[TheMantis]

For a while I have been thinking about military hand-to-hand combat and how effective it may be. I reckon that it may be one of the best because its based on get in "n" kill or defend for your life, what also makes me think that its one of the best is because the soldiers go through intense physical training like those huge obstacle courses and lots of other exercises, plus the fighting the soldiers use don't waste their time doing spin kicks, backflips or any thing of the such, also they do whats quickest and most effective. And of course this is for real, not some spar in a match or ring. I am asking for your opinions. Of course I'm talking about the Specialist Arms Services, the kind that do the "undercover" work. Here in Australia we have one of the best of their kind. TheMantis

[koto_ryu]

For a while I have been thinking about military hand-to-hand combat and how effective it may be. I reckon that it may be one of the best because its based on get in "n" kill or defend for your life, what also makes me think that its one of the best is because the soldiers go through intense physical training like those huge obstacle courses and lots of other exercises, plus the fighting the soldiers use don't waste their time doing spin kicks, backflips or any thing of the such, also they do whats quickest and most effective. And of course this is for real, not some spar in a match or ring. I am asking for your opinions. Of course I'm talking about the Specialist Arms Services, the kind that do the "undercover" work. Here in Australia we have one of the best of their kind. TheMantis

Being a former Marine and a green belt instructor in the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program, I'd actually have to say I am more reliant on my ninjutsu background than any of that. All I have seen it do is give the administrative dorks some big egos once they got their tan belt (belt progression is tan, gray, green, brown, black) they'd go into bars and start fights with 300 pound bikers and get their asses stomped.

[Broadsword2004]

LOL. Hey just wondering, and this is just pure curiousity, were you an enlisted Marine or an officer?

[TheMantis]

Im just curious and im 13 years old. TheMantis

[EmptyneSs]

soldiers think they are badasses, but the fact is they dont train in hand to hand combat many hours per day like alot of serious martial artists. they probobly know more about digging holes for toilets, piling sandbags, and other manual labor type things than hand to hand combat.

this one night at a party this guy who was soldier in the army was getting in my face. next to me was my friend who has done martial arts for 13 years and currently trains in bjj, and my other friend who trains in jkd and kajukenbo. this dude was about to get messed up, cause he thought he was tough since he was in the army. just cause u enlist in the army doesnt mean u are automatically granted ass kicking powers.

also, i know of an instructor and his friend who beat the shit outta 4 marines outside some bar. the marines thought they were badasses, but they all got messed up.

[koto_ryu]

LOL. Hey just wondering, and this is just pure curiousity, were you an enlisted Marine or an officer?

Enlisted, got out as a Corporal and now I'm considering the reserves back at home while I go to college. That'll mean a helluva drive though, as the only two close to me are Motor T and field MPs, both of which I'd rather lose a testicle than do :P lol. I went through the GB instructor course when I was stationed at Okinawa in 2001.

[John05]

It's all about environment and circumstances.

If the fight occured, during a war, between a Pro Martial Artist and a soldier armed with a gun and bayonet, the soldier would win.

In any kind of ring, the soldiers fighting techniques that he had been taught are mostly worthless.

Not many fights allow military standard boots. A good arsenal for soldiers in hand to hand combat.

[Broadsword2004]

I think it depends on the soldier. Your Army Rangers and Marines of Force Recon and other special operations forces I think make better martial artists when they train for martial arts because they are very dedicated to conditioning and fitness.

Being a type of soldier where you must be very, very physically fit, does kind of grant you ass-kicking powers on "most" people.

Like in Anthony Swofford's book, he sais when he was a Marine sniper, they were all a bunch of idiot showoffs who liked to drink, and he said at a bar this one time, these guys in the bar were starting crap with one of them. He said the guy proceeded finally to pick the guy pestering him up, and toss him literally over the bar counter. He said then the entire bar basically jumped them, and it was like 12 or so against 6 and he said they beat the crap out of all those guys.

Against a conditioned martial artist though, it is a different story of course, because those aren't the average joes of a bar.

As for cocky military guys, you get a lot of these idiot assholes who get out of high school and join the military, and you are right, they think they are automatically bad-asses, when really they are big dumb-asses.

Modern soldiers usually don't need hand-to-hand too much though, as those aren't used on the battlefield too much.

But your average soldier who is more elite knows a heck of a lot more then just cleaning toilets and digging holes. They know how to work as a team, how to fire and clean their rifles, they know all about rifles, they know a lot about their mission occupation speciality/job in the military, they have to practice lots of stuff.

Remember, there are your true professional soldiers who are elite and are serious and aren't total idiots, and then there are your dumbos.

[EmptyneSs]

How impressive. He was about to get messed up.

yeah, he was about to, but luckily for him i used words to difuse the situation. my 2 friends arent the type of people to back down, they are extremely down to fight.im the kinda person who would rather stop a fight than start one. that dumb ass soldier was lucky i was there to prevent him getting savagely beat down.

this might be impressive to u since u dont even train in a ma and just like to run ur mouth, but to me it wasnt impressive at all. it was weak sauce. just some bitch like u who talked shit and was about to get served. thats about it.

[Thai Bri]

Yeah! Yeah! I would of killed him!!!!! Yeah! Thats PROOF of how tough I am! Yeah!

In all seriousness, many soldiers are fit people. Hand to hand training isn't really emphasised thouh. In special forces they often have people with ard attitudes. That, coupled with ridiculously high levels of fitness, makes for one tough cookie unarmed.

[koto_ryu]

Yeah! Yeah! I would of killed him!!!!! Yeah! Thats PROOF of how tough I am! Yeah!

In all seriousness, many soldiers are fit people. Hand to hand training isn't really emphasised thouh. In special forces they often have people with ard attitudes. That, coupled with ridiculously high levels of fitness, makes for one tough cookie unarmed.

That's your average infantry Marine there Most of the non-infantry related MOSes, however, are a different story

[LittleDemon]

Thing is soldiers are trained killers martial artists are just trained fighters, you cant stick the two in the same category, yeah we learn how to kill people but also how to restrain them you know killing being the very last resort in self defence, soldiers in context of being good martial artists are bloody amazing becayse they learn all the deadliest quickest ways to disarm an opponent also quick gruesome ways to use a knife etc my sisters husand was bosnian military police he and to fight in the bosnian war, im telling you as soon as the guy walks into a room you know he is a killer but he is also the nicest guy ive ever met, you do not want to **** with these guys because soldiers, military police whatever they are know how to kill you within seconds and are used to it but pit them against a martial artist who has never killed a man there will be that little awarness in his/her mind of how much fight to use whereas a soldier will go all out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HtTKar]

Martial Art, The Art of War

Thing is soldiers are trained killers martial artists are just trained fighters

Karate is just being used as an example here.

I have to completely disagree here.
All soldiers are Martial artists, but not all martial artists are soldiers.

A Karate-ka is someone that takes karate, but that does not make him a true martial artist. It just means that he knows karate.

Someone that studies guns, may have a lot of knowledge about different models and how to shoot, but that doesnt mean they know how to hunt and track a person.

Martial Arts is so much more than just learning how to fight. It also includes situational awareness, and battle strategies.

A true martial artist studies the art of war, not the art of fighting. This includes learning from history, your opponent, and yourself.

If a person were to follow the Art Of War, they would be considered a martial artist, whether they knew Karate or not.

I could dare to say that a martial artist not even need to know how to fight at all, rather he could just be a commander of an army, or a dictator.

So do soldiers make good fighters..that depends on the soldier. A group of soldiers standing together, and fighting together would definitely be better of than a group of thugs attempting the same outcome. However, when you separate these soldiers....one on one, they are just regular people.

I do agree with you that "as soon as he walks into the room you can tell he's a killer". I know that 1000 mile stare more than I'd like to admit. But a person need not be in the military to kill people. I'd rather face someone that killed people during wartime, than someone that kills people in their own hood.

Each individual is different. The military may make great martial-artists whether or not those individuals excell in H2H combat. Its all about teamwork against greater adversity.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Military hand to hand

[QUOTE=TheMantis]For a while I have been thinking about military hand-to-hand combat and how effective it may be.

Most of the U.S. military doesn't do any kind of hand to hand training as part of their PT program. The few that do to any real extent are limited to the Special Forces for each branch, which make up less than 5% of the total department of defense. Out of these guys, I have personally served with, trained, and known a lot of them (SF)over the years and all of them had a significant martial arts backround.

Regular forces, (my wife joined the Army in 2001) don't do any kind of hand to hand training other than some pugil stick work in basic. The only training they may get is if their Commander has instituted a program, but very few do. Most base gyms offer some kind of martial arts training, but it is strictly voluntary, and done after normal working hours.

[EmptyneSs]

yeah, most people in the military dont get that much training in hand to hand combat. some of the more elite units probobly do, but for the most part they dont train that much in martial arts. they learn to use guns and equipment, and outdoor survival skills because these are more important in todays battlefield. their training in no way compares to a skilled, well conditioned martial artist that trains hours everyday, works out, and spars all the time.

im sure there are alot of tough dudes in the military, there are tough dudes everywere. but there are alot of guys who think just because they are inlisted they are automatically badasses, regardless of what training they do or dont get. the guy who was getting in my face was just a regular guy in the us army. the entire night he was starting shit with people and acting like he was the shit because he was a soldier, and would look down on others or measure them up. the problem is cockiness. so many arrogant people out there. i see it alot in ma too. there are people in ma who love to talk about how tough they are 24-7. they think just cause the practice a ma they are the shit. i know a kid who tries to fight everyone because he been doing bjj for a few months, isnt good, and is in poor shape. and he tries to get chicks with it all the time, he is such a douche. i see alot of people like that were i train as well as other places, just like some of the military guys who think they are badasses when they arent.cockiness is lame. cockiness always leads to an asskicking eventually.