Wuzuquan how effective is it ?

[jingshen]

I have found Wuzuquan to be very effective, in fact i have had several discussions and practical sessions with guys from BJJ, Kick/thai boxing, wing chun and a few other systems and have found wuzuquan to be effective agaist all. I am also frustrated by the current trend for people to cross train and look down on 'traditional ' sustems. I believe that people just dont spend enough time learning, developing and undertsanding their arts to gain from them and chop and change too quick. After one or two generations of this there remains very little understanding of the original systemt.

I feel that although 'ringsport' type systems are effective in the ring for a proffessional athlete they lack in longevity ( 35 and its all down hill) and a broader vision as to situations outside of the ring. I can pop a spinning armbar from a ounted position or a reversal from the guard as well as the next man but i would much rather be able to control my opponenets poisture and movement standing up and decide the outcome of the fight before things hit the ground. all the answers i need are in my art, thats what makes it an art.

i 'cross train' in a manner that would replicate 'crossing hands' of an older day without falling out and creating violence. But however allows me to test my ssytem, find holes in my game and fix them before i need to .

just my htoughts

jingshen

[Yu Law]

I have found Wuzuquan to be very effective, in fact i have had several discussions and practical sessions with guys from BJJ, Kick/thai boxing, wing chun and a few other systems and have found wuzuquan to be effective agaist all. I am also frustrated by the current trend for people to cross train and look down on 'traditional ' sustems. I believe that people just dont spend enough time learning, developing and undertsanding their arts to gain from them and chop and change too quick. After one or two generations of this there remains very little understanding of the original systemt.

jingshen

well said. i'm also against the trend of cross training. Although cross training is great b/c there is always a worse case scenario, i think pple should spend more time training in their respected art rather than to use 1 for 1 aspect of a fight and another art for somethign else.

One thing which i have noticed is that strikers that i have seen fight almost always want to adapt to the grappler or wrestler they are preparing to fight. A couple years ago, don't know if it was UFC but it was an MMA event, i saw a wing-chun guy and a jeet kune doe guy lose to grapplers and wrestlers(not in the same event)

They lost mainly due to the fact that they adapted to the grappler and the wrestler. They forgot what made them respected fighters in the first place, their own artform. They preparation for th efight catured to their opponent.

In both the fights the grappler and the wrestler stuck to their guns and went for take downs right away. They didnt try to learn wing-chun or jkd. THe WC and JKD guys however tried to become grapplers inthe short amount of time they prepared for the fight.

What happened was similar in both fights. When the grappler went for a takedown on the WC guy, the WC fighter took two steps backwards and clutched the grappler's head. Instead of doing a pak sao T-step. Maybe he was nervous or wasn't trained well but he didnt use his basic skills. He mite of still lost but at least he would of lost using his own lineage and not trying to copy his opponent's in a short time.

I know som efo u guys r gonna say if he knew how to grapple he mite of won but what if he used his own skills? What if he used the tech. he learned and practiced everyday b4 he knew about hte fight? Diff. story maybe. Maybe not.

[konghan]

I prefer to observe other styles to make my wuzuquan better. And I beleive that wuzuquan can stand up on its own.

And it is by adopting this attitude that will make a style and an individual special and stand out with its own identity that in time it becomes a tradition, a culture, a heritage and a legend.

It is too bad that the sense of loyalty and martial virtue is becoming but a word with little meaning.

[jingshen]

An inherent flaw in all traditional martial arts is the practice of only learnign to defend against your own art. We become a closed society and arrogant of others skills and techniques.

The biggest problem in fighting someone form another system is not the technique but the rythm by which their movement is controlled. We all have a certain rythm when fighting, BJJ is avery short sharp beat, boxingslower more methodical, etc, etc...if u can learn about rythm and adapt it you can control the pace of a fight, when u can break a beat you can dictate what works and when.

it is important to fight / train with other systems otherwise you will become very good at fighting people from your own art only, Wing chun in particular suffers from this. BUt we all do to a degree.

yuo cant just pop a technique as and when u want, it doesnt work that way, there are many other factors involved.

Good judgement, comes from bad experience which comes from bad judgement. The only way to overcome is to make the mistakes and take the defeats in the classroom. invest in the loss and make your art work.

when u fight a grappler you must not forget they are VERY good at taking people down cos thats what they do!....if u know how it feels when your legs are suddenly in a grip and your weight being pushed back maybe if u can recognise it quick enough can use the pressure to increase your root, like any technique it takes practice. SKILL is knowledge in practice, without the practice it is only knowledge and therefore only works in theory.

Ifu want to stop a grappler 'shooting' u then u must practice by having a grappler 'shhot' on u .

in a local wing chun class i watched the instructor teaching his students how to defend a kick. After watching a while i aske dif i could help as the instructors kicks and those of the students practising were not of a high standar and i felt that they would not learn properly and if someone kicked them for real they would not be able to defend it. After kicking the shit out of them for a few moments my pint was made. They can now defend pretty damn well against kicks!

[jingshen]

i just reread my last poist and dont think it says what i meant to say!

my point is that in order to be able to defend against other systems/ styles its important to experience fighting them.

i was lucky enough to train with a couple of BJJ instructors and the first time we sparred was very educational. When they try to get u down they are very good at it. In theory i knew what to do but in practice its different. Now im confident of what to do and my body is used to the feeling so i can react to the feeling of being taken down. I have developed the parts of my art that allow me to do this..if i hadnt been through this experience i would only have theory....

skill is knowledge in practice, you learn theory then practice it in order to develop skill.

same thing for wing chun. before i 'crossed hands' with wing chun guys i knew the theory of how to beat them through observing but in reality...they are excellent at working the centre line whilst wuzuquan uses this theory only in small parts in comparison. now after 'rolling' (chisao) with wing chun guys i can effectively react to their attacks and , using purely wuzuquan deal with what they throw.

without this practice however it would still all be theory..

[konghan]

i just reread my last poist and dont think it says what i meant to say!

my point is that in order to be able to defend against other systems/ styles its important to experience fighting them.

i was lucky enough to train with a couple of BJJ instructors and the first time we sparred was very educational. When they try to get u down they are very good at it. In theory i knew what to do but in practice its different. Now im confident of what to do and my body is used to the feeling so i can react to the feeling of being taken down. I have developed the parts of my art that allow me to do this..if i hadnt been through this experience i would only have theory....

skill is knowledge in practice, you learn theory then practice it in order to develop skill.

same thing for wing chun. before i 'crossed hands' with wing chun guys i knew the theory of how to beat them through observing but in reality...they are excellent at working the centre line whilst wuzuquan uses this theory only in small parts in comparison. now after 'rolling' (chisao) with wing chun guys i can effectively react to their attacks and , using purely wuzuquan deal with what they throw.

without this practice however it would still all be theory..

That is what kung fu is or was really about, traditionally anyway, it was design to be able to fight or survive against different type of fighters. Wuzuquan was originally design as a combat fighting against lawlessness in China in the 1800 - 1900s and if you look at it carefully the traditional wuzuquan training curriculum you will discover that it is about attaining near "invincibity" combine with spiritualsim.

Here is what traditional wuzuquan will be if one is to train 100%:

1. strengthening of the neck
2. " of the shoulder muscle
3. " of the arm and forearm
4. " of the fist, iron palm, finger pirecing and gripping
5. Iron body training, shin and thigh.
6. mobility, quickness and alertness
7. development of powerful-penatrating strikes.

What make grappling look so unstoppable is their success in selling and marketing grappling in mass media. But in the end it is not about the superiority of grappling it is about the athlete and the rules that are available in tournaments.

[yentao]

Wu Zu Quan

In my personal experience, training help me absorbed strikes with lesser pain (enduring chokes and armlocks became more easier to endure), stamina gone better, and muscles strengthen greatly. My strikes gone stronger than before and I was able to inflict pain in different strikes without much force applied. I got to use my forearm for offensive strikes. In striking, I prefered hammering all the way even if it gets to the ground. I get to execute strong punches consecutively without exhausting myself. I think it depends how you train the art yourself with proper breathing and tensioning.

[Drunken Munky]

Wuzuquan was originally design as a combat fighting against lawlessness in China in the 1800 - 1900s.

I don't agree with this. As I understood, it was around more than 700 years ago.

[konghan]

Two version of ngo cho kun

I don't agree with this. As I understood, it was around more than 700 years ago.

In some degree you are right, there are two version of the origin of wuzuquan. One version is that legend foretold that in the Yuan Dynasty (1260-1368) of China, there lived a highly revered kung fu expert, known throughout the lands as Bai Yu-feng. Not much is known about his past, only that he came from a very rich background, but instead of using time to become scholar, he spent his time in the Shaolin temple, mastering the many Kung fu styles within the monastery. One day, as Bai Yu-feng passed through the monastery , he learned about five experts (names of which we no longer have records of) that had perfected different techniques from the temple. Eager to learn, Bai Yu-feng sent out invitations to all of them to demonstrate the amazing techniques they had developed: the White Crane, Monkey, Emperor Song, Arhat, and Bodhidharma styles. Bai Yu-feng then merged these techniques into one, which is now known as Wuzuquan.

The second version which has a more clearer record, Cai Yuming (Chua Kiok-beng) is the founder of Wuzu Kung Fu. He was born in 1853 and lived in the village of Fangwei near the city of Quanzhou in Southern Fukien. He learned and mastered his Kung Fu with a famous shifu named He Yang. When He Yang died of old age, Cai Yuming personally escorted Yang’s remain back to Henan province. After decades of continued research and expertise, he took the government board exam and was awarded the title of “Wuxiucai” (martial scholar). Afterward, Cai Yuming opened up a Kung Fu school called “renyitang”, where he trained many disciples. These disciples, in turn, scattered all over the province of Fukien. Using techniques that he mastered, Yuming put together the styles of Baihe,Qitian, Taizu, Luohan, Dazun, and chose the essence of each style: the swift counter attack of Baihe’s beak, the agile defense of Qitian’s palm, the kicking techniques of Taizu, the footwork of Luohan, and the body postures of Dazun, molding these techniques together into a brand new style of Kung Fu and he named this new style, Wuzuquan.

What need to be pointed out and paid attention to is the 10 years of Cai Yuming travelling around China to learn and meet other martial masters. Probably and this IMOO is that Cai Yuming must have met decendants of Bai Yu-feng and have learned from them about wuzuquan.

Cai Yuming disciples which are known as the Ten Tigers eventually spread their version of wuzuquan to different parts of Fujian province but most notably they Cai Yuming wuzuquan reached the shores of Indonesia, Singapore, parts of Malaysia, Japan, Taiwan and Philippines.

In the Philippines two well known wuzuquan exponents settle and taught wuzuquan they are master Tan Kahong direct decendant of the Ten Tigers and Dr. Lo Yan Chiu train by one of the ten tigers and he is better known as "ho bu chiu" for his ferocity in one incident where he was armed with a sai and the 9 sectional whip, he and his compatriots fought against a band of manchu soldiers.

[Drunken Munky]

Konghan, thank you very much for your reply.

The story of Baik Yu-Feng which I have heard (or read rather). Is slightly different. As you said he came from a wealthy family, and was devoted to traing in the CMA. He realised that Shaolin Temple had produced some amazing exponents. And further realised that the departure of these exponents would leave a hole in the martial arts skills in the Temple. And set out to bring these skills back, he asked many Masters, and many did return, including the five great Masters all who acceled in a certain area of a system. Baik and the five, created Wuzuquan.

A certain Lady added the finishing touches to the style.

Obviously there more to it then that, but thats the basic story I have read.

Althought the two stories may contradict, it doens't really matter, from what I've seen and heard Wuzuquan is a great martial art. Probably one of the few CMA left which still has its essence IMO.

[Nothingness]

The effectiveness of the arts is dependent on your degree of learning. IMO, when one is learning an art, he is learning the experiences of the instructor. A good fit like similar body-build and characters might help you learn the art more. A good instuctor of a good art can guide the students according to the advantage of the students' body. For an example, it is not wise for a guy with a big body to focus on the daizun (monkey) side of NCK.

There are variations in NCK, too. Some lineage like to face hard with hard, some more a more subtle crane hands, some use the monkey steps,etc. It is all dependent on the instruction.

So, is NCK effective? It is all dependent on you. Given that the instructor is qualified, your success is dependent on your own training. Repetition is the key.

[fiveancestors]

Wu Zu Quan website

Here is a website about Wu Zu Quan (Five Ancestors Fist) for those of you interested...

https://www.freewebs.com/fiveancestors

[Hologram]

Question

Are you the MMA fighter that I have seen on TV? Just wondering because the techniques you will learn in wuzuquan are so effective that you may seriously injure someone in the ring. That is if you perform the techniques properly. Some aspects of the art are only taught to senior students because of the possibility of killing or seriously injuring someone. For that reason they are only passed on to students who will not engage in fighting unless they absolutely have to.