From Wing Tsun to Wing Chun

[LittleDemon]

Hiya

i dont really care about modified or traditional etc all i care about is just training i hope to try out many different styles throughout my lifetime and learn what i can from each of them.


After leaving WT i realise there is a lot more to martial arts then meets the eye.


Bruce Lee was quite right - If a cripple invented a martial style which incorporated standing on one leg and everyone copied this then we would all be cripples.

You shouldnt become a porduct of a martial art "style" you should be able to adapt the skill to meet your own individual needs.

Little Demon!

p.s so no i have no regrets!

[Yu Law]

Hiya

i dont really care about modified or traditional etc all i care about is just training i hope to try out many different styles throughout my lifetime and learn what i can from each of them.


After leaving WT i realise there is a lot more to martial arts then meets the eye.


Bruce Lee was quite right - If a cripple invented a martial style which incorporated standing on one leg and everyone copied this then we would all be cripples.

You shouldnt become a porduct of a martial art "style" you should be able to adapt the skill to meet your own individual needs.

Little Demon!

p.s so no i have no regrets!

so you're going to join Jeet Kune Do? Cause thats the closest thing to what u described. Its cool if u are.

[Yu Law]

Yeah its all cool. Note that I take Wushu, Wing Chun, AND Tai Chi all at that same place. Its cool man, I wish you lived still lived here so I could show you around.

don't u get mixed up doing all 3? And wouldn't learing all 3 hinder your practice/home trainingb/c u coulda practiced 1 of them faster.

And im coming back to Toronto soon. University is over soon. I think im gonna join a school in Markham.

[IBOPM]

No, I don't. my sifu has been able to combine them all. Wushu elements are more for co-ordination than technique because its really lacking in technique. And Tai-Chi is a very nice compliment because it has lots of join locks and manipulations that Wing Chun give the opportunity for. The three combined are very good.

Good to hear you're coming back to T.O. What school is that?

Edit: Punctuation

[LittleDemon]

I don't think you quite understood my last post - I have changed M-arts yes and i am hoping to develop WingChun for myself, as a martial artist, by this i mean learning the skills within the designed and developing structure wing chun to the best of my own ability not one persons ability within the martial arts is the same.

You never know in 5 yrs or so i might wish to change to a different style and see how they train and the ideas used there etc.

Ive been horse riding for 16 yrs not one horse can be riden the same way it takes different tactics and trial and error attempts to understand how the horse likes to be exercised - its different every time.

With a fight situation its different every time no ones going to fight exactly the same fight twice so i like variety and being able to learn new things and have the option there to learn new skills within the martial art.

The reason i swaped from WT to WC and not to karate or TKd etc was just because things didn't work out for me in the WT, dosent mean i should have to give up a Kung Fu style im more or less familiar with and enjoy training, and its nice to find out for myself that they are different from each other also i feel, i can progress with the WC in a way that i could not have done with the WT (if that makes sense.)

Yeah WT is good to train i trained for 7 yrs but i dont regret my decision of leaving the WT because things happen that can make you change your mind and think about things, i found some things out and personally for myself i didnt agree with those things.

Anyway each to their own i guess,

Little.D

[LittleDemon]

Best of luck to IBOPM with your training to train 3 all at once now thats a brave thing lol - i think its a good thing in a way and keeps the brain very engaged thinking about all the things going on within the different three styles, anyway everyone's intitled to their own opinion i admire your determination to do three all at the same time but in a way martial arts are all the same - they are all fighting stles the internal and external arts, we all have two arms and two legs it just depends how we learn to move them along with the rest of our body.

[IBOPM]

LoL, its seriously not hard at all. Some theroies are the same, some are different. I know that its good to concentrate on an art. However, being able to multi-taskl learning seems beneficial. Because you might gain habits in certain arts that may be contrary to the principles of another art. Studying multiple arts give me a certain flexibiltiy of learning. My sifu overlooks ALL my training so its not hard at all, he corrects me when he sees a problem. I actually prefer this environment. Being the young person that I am, it is nice to have some variety. Tai Chi and Wing Chun matches up very nicely by the way. Tai Chi teaches many locks and throws, while Wing Chun creates the opportunities for me to use those locks and throws.

[bbbb]

question?

Remember the Ving Tsun dude in one of the UFC's got taken down straight away- well that was because he was an amatuer in the Ring.

I was just wondering, trying to turn a negative into a positive, what he should've have done when the guy went for the shoot immediately.

Because he did go for the shoot immediately- Actually: we'll discuss that..Why did he go for the shoot immediately?

I'm not saying my Kung Fu would be any better!

I would say that on the street you can't expect to be nice to such a large opponent- punches, from a smaller man, will not suffice.

So: what should this Ving Tsun guy have done1) in the ring- is he helpless?
2) on the street- is he again helpless?

There must be an answer or two!?

[IBOPM]

Ahh, very good question. At my school, we do practice against shoots and takedowns in the wing chun division. But because I cross-train in TaiChi, I use my grappling experience there to take down and/or lock takedowns and shoots. Well, from a Wing Chun perspective. When a shoot comes in, he is usually giving you his neck. You should be able to bring him down with his neck and his elbow. If he protects his neck with his arms and elbows in, then it makes things harder. People might tell you to sprawl. I've never tried this so I'm not one in support of this method nor to bash it. But using Wing Chun principles, we will stick with our stance and shift to a side and well I'm not sure here. You can try punching, but he might be able to grab it and use it against you. That's why I cross-train in Tai Chi. Well, suppose that you do know a number of joint locks. once you have contact with his arm, then you should be able to control it. Wing Chun isn't really that great against grapplers admitedly. Its methods can work. Although I see more efficient methods in TaiChi. Which is understandable because it did give birth to most of the oriental grappling arts today.

[IBOPM]

People are less likely to try this on the street. Most people on the street use what they learn from TV. Which is mostly like boxing. You know how teenagers with no MA fight in High School. So WC should be fine there. If they do grapple, then you should be prepared.

As to why did that guy go for a shoot first? I think its because he knows that Wing Chun does not have much or any groundwork. Some schools might try to sell to you that Wing Chu does have groundwork, but the truth of the matter is that it does not.

[bbbb]

excellent...

No answer...but admission as to a sticky situation...well I s'pose if the BJJ'ers admit that striking is necessary then so should we admit that takedown defence(of a serious nature) should be examined...likewise!

I don't really have an answer! But here goe's:

answer1) Pull them down into a knee and twist head too extreme's when on ground, (whilst thinking of an eye gouge!)

answer2)Hammer fist after palm strike/grab to head. (When on ground stomp on head and run for the hill's.)

answer3)Bill Gee{I don't have a clue what this is...but being the third form it should work shouldn't it_ ohhhhh I get it Wing Chun is not allowed to use their third form in competition's- is that it?! c'mon...gimme some answer's here...I'm searching for the truthmaate!!

[bbbb]

I thought...

Tai chi was "sorta grappling"; What would Tai Chi do for the shoot again, sorry?

[Hot Sauce]

bbbb,

2) Depending on a number of factors it’s hard to say exactly what can be done. However there are lots of things that could be done in a street situation. As someone already mentioned it’s highly unlikely that someone wants to “shoot” you on the street, but if it does happen there are a couple of things that you could do:

First, if the attacker is close and if you see him shooting try to step back and lower your centre of gravity, since if he can’t get below your centre of gravity he can’t do anything to move yours. If you are in range, use knees towards his head, elbows against his head and neck. You could also double palm strike him on his back and maybe kick him wherever you can. Chain punches towards is neck works also if you can’t reach him with elbows. Another thing that you could do is to grab his head with one or both hands and perhaps bend it backwards and attack his eyes, one of the first sections in chum kiu, or attack his ears. Another nice thing is to get the "knee control", which will have the same effect as lowering you CoG.

[IBOPM]

bbbb,

Bil Jee has applications yes. Some of them are quite fierce. However, most of them are part of your basic Wing Chun principles. In competitiong, I don't see how one can regulate your techniques. Probably almost anything is allowed except some of the obvious ones ie. elbows and knees.

Tai Chi has a saying it is called "Seut Dat Kum Nah" Which means this: Wrestle, Throw, Lock, Control. That's the basis of Tai Chi as opposed to WC which is namely "Kuen Da Geuk Tek" meaning Fist Punches, Foot kicks. Anyways, a Tai Chi person (me) would probably lock his arm if his arms are out forward. If they are out far on the side, I'd Wrestle his neck down (using a neck hold). If his arms are in and protecting himself, then I'll have to wait for him to extend his arm unless I can get a wrist lock on him fast which is doubtful. But the closer he is to me, the better I can manipulate him. The good thing about Tai Chi is that I can sprawl and lean my weight on him if I wanted to.

[Yu Law]

i don't know about u guys, but i practice William Cheung's wing chun. SO we have a lot of foot work in contrast to other styles who usually slide their feet.

So what i would do is a 1/2-full T-Step depending on the energy, prob. full t-step b/c he wants to take me down. Then i would pak sao on the side of his head. Followed by chain punches as the guy staggers a little or a lot from the initial strike.

Picture one of those mexican guys who let bulls charge at them. Its basically the same concept.