Wing Tsun or Choy Lee Fut ?

[Daddy_Cool]

There's no need with the insults. pstevens may not have the years of experience in the styles that maybe you have, but that doesn't mean he's not allowed expresss his opinions about the art [at least he admits to not having a lot of experience, but only states what he's seen while training in these styles]. One thing that gets me angry about this whole forum, if we're all martial artist, we should be able to have a debate without leading to insults. We should all be above that. Finally, if you want to quote physics equations Daddy Cool, make sure you're giving the correct ones.

Speed x Mass doesn't equal Power....

Speed x Mass equals momentum.
Power = Work / time or aka (Force x Distance)/time

Please.... would you not concur that momentem is a direct relation to power? It's rather elementary physics. Feel free to make whatever equations you want Speed x mass is still equal to power. But it's also relative to how one would define power. Power, as we all know can be defined in different ways. That's another discussion all together.

I don't have a problem with people expressing their opinions, just make sure they are educated ones. If you don't mind bull shit answers and bull shit questions, that's your problem. Just remember, those who aren't educated on these topics think they are gaining insights from other peoples bull shit. I know that I would personally rather read opinions from someone who knows what they are talking about. Quite simply, if you do not know what you are talking about, don't post your opinion, for if you do.... you are doing everyone here a disservice. Can you not understand the frustration?

[IBOPM]

Mass x Speed doesn't directly equal power. But it is pretty damn close.

half of (Mass x Velocity^2) = Delta Kinetic Energy

In a perfect system, Kinetic Energy can relate to Work. And Work over Time is Power. And since Time is always pretty much (assumed) a constant, then half Mass x Speed^2 equals Power

Basically it is true that the higher the mass and/or speed, the more power is generated. Increasing speed gives more power than increasing mass by the same magnitude though. This is because the velocity is squared while the mass is just multiplied directly with the velocity squared.

[Daddy_Cool]

Mass x Speed doesn't directly equal power. But it is pretty damn close.

half of (Mass x Velocity^2) = Delta Kinetic Energy

In a perfect system, Kinetic Energy can relate to Work. And Work over Time is Power. And since Time is always pretty much (assumed) a constant, then half Mass x Speed^2 equals Power

Basically it is true that the higher the mass and/or speed, the more power is generated. Increasing speed gives more power than increasing mass by the same magnitude though. This is because the velocity is squared while the mass is just multiplied directly with the velocity squared.

Excellent post! We need more people like you posting here. That was exactly my point, I was just trying to simplify the formula.

[Tom Yum]

Mass x Speed doesn't directly equal power. But it is pretty damn close.

half of (Mass x Velocity^2) = Delta Kinetic Energy

In a perfect system, Kinetic Energy can relate to Work. And Work over Time is Power. And since Time is always pretty much (assumed) a constant, then half Mass x Speed^2 equals Power

Basically it is true that the higher the mass and/or speed, the more power is generated. Increasing speed gives more power than increasing mass by the same magnitude though. This is because the velocity is squared while the mass is just multiplied directly with the velocity squared.

Hey IBOPM, check your power equation; its incorrect. Check your units....

Speed is merely the magnitude of velocity and shares the same units but tells you nothing of your position and direction, so your equation for power incorrectly gives you Joules (see: velocity vs. speed). I think the unit for power is watts...please correct if I'm wrong.

Ask yourself what are the units of Power and Work? Break them down into each individual unit and you will see your mistake.

Good post though.

[IBOPM]

Speed and velocity are pretty close, one of them being vectored. Yeah, unit for power is watts, and unit for work is Joules. Work of time or Joules over Seconds should be Watt then. Isn't it? I dont know. I'm not sure, I don't really know all that much about physics. I only know what i said.

[Daddy_Cool]

Well, all formulas aside... I believe we have still come to the conclusion that power is a result of speed.

How would you guys define the difference between power and strength? Bruce Lee believed that a man could be strong, but if he couldn't use that strength quickly, he is not powerful. I think that was a tremendous insight on Lee's part, what are your thoughts?

[IBOPM]

Definitely. Power is Work of Time, so speed is important. Strength is just how much you can lift at the gym. An olympic weight lifter that can lift several hundred pounds may punch very slowly. Any person that can get their punches to their opponents faster AND with proper form, strength can take down someone who can ONLY lift heavy stuff.

But if someone has the strength, then assuming they can block decently. Their strength may give them the advantage by resisting an attack brute force. I dont think thats the way to go, but you do that unconsciously a lot, so that is why if two people are at the approximate skill level the stronger one will win.

My 2 Cents

[ddrive]

Definitely. Power is Work of Time, so speed is important. Strength is just how much you can lift at the gym. An olympic weight lifter that can lift several hundred pounds may punch very slowly. Any person that can get their punches to their opponents faster AND with proper form, strength can take down someone who can ONLY lift heavy stuff.

But if someone has the strength, then assuming they can block decently. Their strength may give them the advantage by resisting an attack brute force. I dont think thats the way to go, but you do that unconsciously a lot, so that is why if two people are at the approximate skill level the stronger one will win.

My 2 Cents

If was to define strength using the physics power equation, I would define strength as the [work] an individual can do. what makes the individual powerful is the length of time that he does it in. Mark Kerr and Bryan Johnston were prime examples.

[ddrive]

Definitely. Power is Work of Time, so speed is important. Strength is just how much you can lift at the gym. An olympic weight lifter that can lift several hundred pounds may punch very slowly. Any person that can get their punches to their opponents faster AND with proper form, strength can take down someone who can ONLY lift heavy stuff.

But if someone has the strength, then assuming they can block decently. Their strength may give them the advantage by resisting an attack brute force. I dont think thats the way to go, but you do that unconsciously a lot, so that is why if two people are at the approximate skill level the stronger one will win.

My 2 Cents

If was to define strength using the physics power equation, I would define strength as the [work] an individual can do. what makes the individual powerful is the length of time that he does it in. Mark Kerr and Bryan Johnston were prime examples.

[IBOPM]

Good point there. I concur.

[theprophet]

Wing Chun

I have no formula to share only my own experience but I can say my old Sifu Rich Kohler is a 6th degree BB in Kempo and a Wing Chun instructor. He is on the lineage chart. I would say from my time with him that Wing Chun can be very effective in the street if you are skilled at it. He was exellent at applying locks and trapping against WC, Kempo and a brawler (hooks, crosses, uppercuts) He had me throw 1000 "sun" punches a day to develop "power". Once the tricept muscle gets used to that the Sun punch can be very effective and extremely fast. I've moved too far from my WC school and now do Muay Thai/BJJ, but I still try to throw 1000 punches from time to time and I still practice my Sil Lim Tao. I would love to get back into the WC after becoming profficient in the MT/BJJ The philosophy in WC is solid and the Chi Sao is great stuff for sensitivity.

Just my $.02

[Capt Insaino]

???

"Wing Chun:

Pros: Fast punches, good blocks and parries.
Cons: Trapping doesn't work in real fights, punches lack real power."


PStevens,
No disrespect intended, but I'm not sure which Wing Chun student you've been hit by. Obviously it wasn't anyone whom has trained with or by an experienced Sifu. If you were hit with the punch of a student which was taught the true art, you would have a total different opinion on Wing Chun's punhces. Again, no disrespect intended, we all are by no means experts on all subjects. I would do more research before making statements such as the on seen above.

[BoarSpear]

CLF takes much longer to learn as it is a "complete System" ie it contains Chi kung and other training with many long complicated forms. Not quite the largest system but one of them. WC on the other hand contains 3 short forms and a dummy form plus drills and the basics can be picked up in 6 months. They are opposite extremes of the CMAs. One based on learning some skills and lots of drills, one based on lots of forms to build muscle memory etc. If you think trapping doesnt work against "aggressive" punching you havent met a properly trained fighter as for WC not hitting hard Thats nonsense. Many people half assed train at best in very complicated demanding styles then whine in 6 months that they arnt Bruce lee. If you havent practiced 500-1000 punches a day for at least a year your sun punch sucks period. Want fast results? Talk to NEO I hear he has this red pill....

[bbbb]

Physic's: year 11/12

(Assuming constant acceleration...)
Force= mass * acceleration
Momentum= m * velocity
Power= Work/ time
Work= Force * s(displacement)
Impulse= F/t
Ep(potential energy)= m*g*h, where g= 9.8m/s^2.
Ek(kinetic energy)=1/2m*velocity^2
s(displacement)=u(initial velocity)t + 1/2 a*t^2
v(final velocity)^2= u^2 + 2*a*s
a=(v-u)/t

Strength would be work!

[Oraenor]

The original question is whether to train in wing tsun or choy lai fut.....geezz!

People, Wing Tsun is NOT Wing Chun despite being relatively close. Wing Tsun split off from Wing Chun when Leung Ting decided he was too good for Yip man's teachings.
If it was WC vs CLF as a decision, i would choose WC since its quicker to learn but it isnt, its WT vs CLF, therefore I choose CLF as it is more reliable in that matter despite taking ages to learn.