chinese martial art: practical/traditional

[danfaggella]

im sure all martial arts are grounded in practicality, but sometimes i questiong is allot of KF and wushu isnt just a traditional dance. i see many demonstrations but no practical application (which i am dying to see by the way, i love chinese MA). even shoulin guys, they train body/mind all day, but i never see them spar, its always punching hot coals or breaking bricks. i wonder if many people dont practice these arts to keep the tradition and ceremony alive, rather than to be a practical fighter. this especially goes for shoulin animal forms and for wushu acrobatics, they are interesting and need much practice and strenth but dont seem practical (although knowing how to do them isn't going to hurt your fighting skills, it sure doesnt seem logical that acting like a snake or a crane will get you far in a a fight)

what are your thoughts, you are all knowledgable.

[aku aku]

Most of the moves do have applications or are for some sort of training purpose to develop a certain quality. There are many moves in kung fu that don't have an obvious application but when you see them done on another person they make sense. I do agree though that a lot of the stuff is overly stylized and the quality of training varies a lot from one school to the next.

Wushu acrobatics isn't really self defense, it's more for show.

[Oraenor]

im sure all martial arts are grounded in practicality, but sometimes i questiong is allot of KF and wushu isnt just a traditional dance. i see many demonstrations but no practical application (which i am dying to see by the way, i love chinese MA). even shoulin guys, they train body/mind all day, but i never see them spar, its always punching hot coals or breaking bricks. i wonder if many people dont practice these arts to keep the tradition and ceremony alive, rather than to be a practical fighter. this especially goes for shoulin animal forms and for wushu acrobatics, they are interesting and need much practice and strenth but dont seem practical (although knowing how to do them isn't going to hurt your fighting skills, it sure doesnt seem logical that acting like a snake or a crane will get you far in a a fight)

what are your thoughts, you are all knowledgable.

Thats quite a boast for someone who trains in none. You are correct that Wushu has no combat application but do not be confused with Wushu and kung fu. Kung fu, despite that some moves may look peculiar, all have some meaning to it, whether it may easy or hard to do is another matter.
All that shaolin you see on tv is a publicity stunt created by communist chinese propaganda and is just suppose to be eye glitter. Animal systems are not suppose to act like animals like the shaolin monks present it but an ideology and traits of that animal ie. tiger is strong and ferocious.

[danfaggella]

im not looking up communist propoganda. I've watch the discovery channel documentary (maybe it was national geographic...) on shoulin monks. I saw allot of amazing physical feats, like lifting things, punching things, breaking things, holdiong positions for very very long periods of time ect... but i saw no sparring, just a little bit of punching the air.

also, i doubt im the only one who questions KF's practicality, i took it as a hint when i didnt see anyone practice it in the UFC. I have allot of respect for al KF, but now im teetering on weather or not it functions well in a real fight.

also, what are the shoulin monks doing up there at the temple? are they trying to further thier martial art? keep a tradition alive? get it great shape? appease a god?

i am very interested in these things

thanks

[Zapatista]

also, i doubt im the only one who questions KF's practicality, i took it as a hint when i didnt see anyone practice it in the UFC.

I'm new to martial arts but just because something isn't in UFC doesn't mean it doesn't have practical use in fighting. I read somewhere (or was told, I can't remember) that a lot of the traditional martial arts aren't used in NHB/MMA because they start their hands at the waist and everything moves out from there. If you have your hands down, you will be pummled and butchered by the strikes to your head.

Also, look at Krav Maga (I know it's not Chinese and I'm not sure people's opinion on this art but I'll use it anyways). It's not seen in the UFC but it is, from what I hear, extremely effective in a street fight.

Most people (not all, but most) that want to do MMA want to do what's proven and what has lasted the longest in competition. That's why Muay Thai/Kickboxing/Boxing is used as the striking art, because it is one of the most effective. And that is also why Brazilian Ju-Jitsu is common too.

I hope this post makes sense and I hope I haven't butchered anything too bad, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[danfaggella]

i agree MT and BJJ are really practical and thats why its seen so much in the UFC.... too much for my liking.

however, i really would like to see some UFC compedators trained hard in karate or KF or something uncommon, because i'm getting this feeling like they really aren't that great for real fights, i want to have more faith in kf/karate. i know that they are not useless, they must be rather good, but it seems like they have been taken over by more effective, and less traditional Martial arts.

[Zapatista]

It's my understanding that most of the traditional martial arts are going against an unlearned opponent, instead of one who is as skilled or even more skilled in a martial art. I realize this isn't all true, but from what I've seen (very little and only Tae Kwon Do) and heard (from a coworker who does Kenpo) it's true.

But yes I do agree with you, I would like to see a "rarer" art in the UFC or just MMA altogether, but I doubt it will come any time soon. People are in it to win, so why would they want to choose an art that isn't "battle" tested and is unclear as the efficiency in MMA combat. Hell, I'm always excited if there is somebody with a Judo background instead of BJJ because that is something you don't see everyday.

[BoarSpear]

im not looking up communist propoganda. I've watch the discovery channel documentary (maybe it was national geographic...) on shoulin monks. I saw allot of amazing physical feats, like lifting things, punching things, breaking things, holdiong positions for very very long periods of time ect... but i saw no sparring, just a little bit of punching the air.

also, i doubt im the only one who questions KF's practicality, i took it as a hint when i didnt see anyone practice it in the UFC. I have allot of respect for al KF, but now im teetering on weather or not it functions well in a real fight.

also, what are the shoulin monks doing up there at the temple? are they trying to further thier martial art? keep a tradition alive? get it great shape? appease a god?

i am very interested in these things

thanks

Everything that happens at Shaolin temple is with the permission of the communist gov. most of the people at shaolin today are wushu performers, very few actual fighting monks remain...and those dont live at the Temple.
the temple today is more tourist attraction than anything else. Btw Budda doesnt need appeasing...no one nailed him to a cross...

[bbbb]

$0.02...

im not looking up communist propoganda. I've watch the discovery channel documentary (maybe it was national geographic...) on shoulin monks. I saw allot of amazing physical feats, like lifting things, punching things, breaking things, holdiong positions for very very long periods of time ect... but i saw no sparring, just a little bit of punching the air.

also, i doubt im the only one who questions KF's practicality, i took it as a hint when i didnt see anyone practice it in the UFC. I have allot of respect for al KF, but now im teetering on weather or not it functions well in a real fight.

also, what are the shoulin monks doing up there at the temple? are they trying to further thier martial art? keep a tradition alive? get it great shape? appease a god?

i am very interested in these things

thanks

Kung Fu seem's to be more interested in keeping you out of a fight...they believe in self defense and proving your manhood inside the "Mc-Dojo".

Seriously, y'all tryingto call out Kung Fu..Y'all lost maate..they don't want to fight maate..GO FIGHT SOMEWHERE ELSE(but we don't mind placing a few bet's on who's gonna smash who!!?? Ya Know).

Kung Fu is about the CONFIDENCE TO WALK AWAY....durrr...

(NOT to walk into a ring and get pulverised half the time trying to prove you're a man.)

O.K. MT rulz. If M.T. rulz=======> then go hang out w/ ya bikie mate's then...Kung Fu believe's in the philosophy of SELF DEFENSE and will not have their very own student's self mutilating each other...they would rather not walk down that dark alley. It's pointless. It create's thuggery- durr....

[bbbb]

(again)

im not looking up communist propoganda. I've watch the discovery channel documentary (maybe it was national geographic...) on shoulin monks. I saw allot of amazing physical feats, like lifting things, punching things, breaking things, holdiong positions for very very long periods of time ect... but i saw no sparring, just a little bit of punching the air.

also, i doubt im the only one who questions KF's practicality, i took it as a hint when i didnt see anyone practice it in the UFC. I have allot of respect for al KF, but now im teetering on weather or not it functions well in a real fight.

also, what are the shoulin monks doing up there at the temple? are they trying to further thier martial art? keep a tradition alive? get it great shape? appease a god?

i am very interested in these things

thanks

IMHO the shaolin monk's are leaving a legacy by trying to keep the Traditional CMA alaive. A peaceful legacy. To show that their is a peaceful option now available, thanx to the wars and evil of the past.

Atleast they are trying to give people a hope of peace for the future. It is strongly theoretical and possibly not aswell equipped as boxing and MT- but it has a peaceful mission as opposed to the ring spectacle's us westerner's are intent on forever supporting- which is basically THUGGERY IN IT'S MOST GRANDIOSE FORM!

[bbbb]

iF YOU HURT SOMEONE

... they are going to hurt you back- but if you're too good and they can't hurt you--->then they will go and hurt someone else. (Because that's how dirty a feeling it is...and that is what Kung Fu recognises first and foremost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

Kung Fu will not go down that dark alley-if you want to go down that dark alley...Sifu don't want to know you.

A true Sifu has a plan for world piece. This, I believe, is basically it.

Boxer's want to fight- Kung Fu doesn't. (and won't.)

[bbbb]

It aint the thought...

i agree MT and BJJ are really practical and thats why its seen so much in the UFC.... too much for my liking.

however, i really would like to see some UFC compedators trained hard in karate or KF or something uncommon, because i'm getting this feeling like they really aren't that great for real fights, i want to have more faith in kf/karate. i know that they are not useless, they must be rather good, but it seems like they have been taken over by more effective, and less traditional Martial arts.

...of you being beaten up by other people that disturb's the mind-it's the thought of you beating up other people.

Please consider.

[bbbb]

...of you being beaten up by other people that disturb's the mind-it's the thought of you beating up other people.

Please consider.

What do you mean you want more faith...to beat other people up more convincingly than you already can/can't.

Kung Fu is about FULL INTENTION.

I ask you: What is your full intention? (This is called becoming more conscious..)

Did a weight just drop off your shoulder's..there is no need to save everyone maaaaaaaaaaaaaan. Just don't walk down that dark alley.

[IBOPM]

I read this thread and I shake my head. Having known the history of the Chinese culture, been raised in the Chinese culture, and BEING Chinese. I feel that I must state what I have seen/heard and what I truly believe to be the truth.

1. Kung Fu (CMA) and Wushu has similarity and are sort of related. Some consider Wushu to be CMA, some consider it to be dance. Wushu did begin as CMA and then evolved to be a dance. Part of this was due to the Communists' work. I have studied some Wushu and there are still remnants of application left within some of it. But a lot of it is just flashyness.

2. What you see on Discovery Channel and National Geographic, or anything in the world about Shaolin is controlled by the Communists. At the Shaolin Temple, they still keep some traditions. But it has mostly evolved to modern Wushu. By the way, sparring WAS (don't know about now) done in the temple ages ago. This is proven evident in an ancient painting of the temple and other texts.

3. MMA/UFC people dislike traditional MA (TMA) because they are looking for fast and simple things. While pretty much all of CMA is TMA, we can now look at why they dislike TMA. In TMA we have forms, and we start from the ground up. We learn basic power generation techniques. We want to get our form correct. Preservation of the art, and mastery of technique is very important. MMA/UFC people CAN use TMA effectively in UFC/Pride. However IMHO they are too impatient to deal with forms and years of training. Instead they join a lot of BJJ schools and MT and other things which may have less or no forms at all. And they break into fighting pretty early on.

4. CMA is after a MA. Intention (yee) is studied in CMA. The intention is to disable the opponent. Saying that CMA is all peaceful and whatnot and doesn't spar much is a misconception.

5. TMA and CMA are not primarily used against untrained people. Back in the days of China, CMA people were quite rebelious and fought many soldiers (trained) and other schools too.

6. Yes peace is important. And knowing self-control is part of what CMA is. However, you must also defend yourself and practice sparring.

7. It is true that tradition bores a lot of people, and it is why a lot of people go with the MMA crowd. However, it is part of what makes it an art. And it is definitely just as effective if not more.

Just my 2 Cents.

[Tom Yum]

I read this thread and I shake my head. Having known the history of the Chinese culture, been raised in the Chinese culture, and BEING Chinese. I feel that....

Shame on you for making an error in your power calculation umpteenth threads ago....

Read your post.

You didn't mention the Chinese arts that are about fighting and involve sparring & grappling.

Sanshou, shuaijiao, qin na, etc.