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Hey boarSpear.
I'm not that kind of guy at all (trying to get into fights), and in any case, we shouldn't be discussing ME or anyone in particular.
I said I believe many people train MA with these kind of fights in mind. Let's call them ego fights or whatever. So in these kind of fights it's just ego that fuels the fight, so the other guy is unlikely to actually want to kill you.
In the USA guns are way more accessible than in other countries. For instance, in my country, it's extremely unlikely that a guy you got into a fight with has or can get a weapon.
So in these countries, self defense has another meaning than it has in for instance USA. In most cases, you will be dealing with someone unarmed, at a party with a little too much alcohol in the picture. So at least in my country, you "know" if the guy has a weapon or not, and here that is called a fight. You might be wrong about if he carries a weapon, but it's improbable.
And yes, I agree that in most cases the best thing to do to avoid bodily harm is to submit and leave.
BUT, I believe that many in these countries people train MA so that they can stand their ground in these cases. And what I was asking is if you don't think that MA training will help you with that?
I agree it may not be self defense in the sense that you probably have the option to leave. But, according to law he has no right to force you to take that option, and if he gets aggressive and you fight back that will considered self defense by law right?
And there is also the case where the escalation from loud conversation to violence happens very fast, and the guy starts swinging at you, forcing you to the wall behind you.
But yes, you are right that in a country where weapons are common, sports like wrestling, boxing and jj have little to do with self defense according to your definition of the term.
I would like to extend the term to also include the mental aspect. If someone shouts and threatens you verbally, I would say you need to defend yourself in some way to avoid "damage to your person" (ego, self image). Not everyone can do this. And most kids will defend this through punches.
I think many will feel it's degrading to be the one to be forced to leave a party because of "that aggressive guy", therefore they may choose to fight back instead. That's their self defense. They will rather get a physical punch than a psychological one.
Of course, with age many learn to slip the psychological one, and thus they can leave the party no harm done.
Once again, I have not stated my personal position on most of this, so please keep the discussion general.
Also, I don't assume to be certain about anything, I'm here to learn from other by discussion, so my views can change. I'm not trying to MAKE you see things my way, I'm just offering you my view so we can discuss it (and yours as well of course).
Note that I have said I agree with you when it comes to countries where weapons are common. So to be fair, I have changed the premise of this discussion.
I made the mistake of having my own country's image of self defense and its rarity of weapons among citizens. But if you'd like to continue the discussion with those premises I'd be happy to as well.
I'm not that kind of guy at all (trying to get into fights), and in any case, we shouldn't be discussing ME or anyone in particular.
I said I believe many people train MA with these kind of fights in mind. Let's call them ego fights or whatever. So in these kind of fights it's just ego that fuels the fight, so the other guy is unlikely to actually want to kill you.
In the USA guns are way more accessible than in other countries. For instance, in my country, it's extremely unlikely that a guy you got into a fight with has or can get a weapon.
So in these countries, self defense has another meaning than it has in for instance USA. In most cases, you will be dealing with someone unarmed, at a party with a little too much alcohol in the picture. So at least in my country, you "know" if the guy has a weapon or not, and here that is called a fight. You might be wrong about if he carries a weapon, but it's improbable.
And yes, I agree that in most cases the best thing to do to avoid bodily harm is to submit and leave.
BUT, I believe that many in these countries people train MA so that they can stand their ground in these cases. And what I was asking is if you don't think that MA training will help you with that?
I agree it may not be self defense in the sense that you probably have the option to leave. But, according to law he has no right to force you to take that option, and if he gets aggressive and you fight back that will considered self defense by law right?
And there is also the case where the escalation from loud conversation to violence happens very fast, and the guy starts swinging at you, forcing you to the wall behind you.
But yes, you are right that in a country where weapons are common, sports like wrestling, boxing and jj have little to do with self defense according to your definition of the term.
I would like to extend the term to also include the mental aspect. If someone shouts and threatens you verbally, I would say you need to defend yourself in some way to avoid "damage to your person" (ego, self image). Not everyone can do this. And most kids will defend this through punches.
I think many will feel it's degrading to be the one to be forced to leave a party because of "that aggressive guy", therefore they may choose to fight back instead. That's their self defense. They will rather get a physical punch than a psychological one.
Of course, with age many learn to slip the psychological one, and thus they can leave the party no harm done.
Once again, I have not stated my personal position on most of this, so please keep the discussion general.
Also, I don't assume to be certain about anything, I'm here to learn from other by discussion, so my views can change. I'm not trying to MAKE you see things my way, I'm just offering you my view so we can discuss it (and yours as well of course).
Note that I have said I agree with you when it comes to countries where weapons are common. So to be fair, I have changed the premise of this discussion.
I made the mistake of having my own country's image of self defense and its rarity of weapons among citizens. But if you'd like to continue the discussion with those premises I'd be happy to as well.
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