THis is a video fight between Kyokushin KARATE VS Drunken Kung fu!!!

[Phil Elnore]

A study of the sparring session clearly reveals the Kung Fu Master is playing! He rolls onto punches and kicks, not off, merely to show how they cannot hurt him!

Only Wing Chun could possibly be more deadly, and Master of either style could take out any two Karate-Do dopes!

Note - Two Karate kicks form Way of Crane. Wing Chun's snake always (not always!) used to deflect and de-beak the bird!

[Oliver]

I think it's pretty obvious that these drunken-stylists where trained in Japan by a japanese teacher. Not that it should matter, but this time it obviously does. They do not fight the way intended when using Gong Fu, and they frankly look novice. I bet they haven't done much contact practise or striking either. And they are barefoot which does make a difference.
Gong Fu kicks, sweeps and stomps are designed to be practiced and executed with footwear on.
Why? Because you probably will be wearing such in the event of a threatening situation.

All in all, this is by no means a fair comparison of styles.
You wouldn't have to be a karateka to be able to kick these guys in the head.

Try letting them aim kicks at someone like Chiu Chi Ling, and I'll call it fair.
But I won't pay their hospital bill.

[Shard]

If you can kick properly, it can be done with or withour footwear. I've really never heard of such an absurd idea. The sweeps and such ar supposed to work footwear or not. In fact most KF practioners try to use foot wear that is as natural as possible. In other words, they wear less restrictive sports shoes that are supposed to mimick the barefoot as close as possible as opposed to heavy leather boots. In fact, most people who do TCMA prefer to go barefooted(Wushu is in no way traditonal, unless you consider 50 yrs to be traditional).

It all boils down to poor training and a misinterpretation of the art.
They were trying their hardest to look drunk as opposed to trying their hardest to fight and win. It was sickening to watch. Not trying to make excuses, but why are head shots considered fight stoppers/winners? If its not a KO you really haven't won anything. They should have used proper rounds or win by ko/submission. I've been hit with a flying knee and i was still able to stand and fight(needed a few seconds to shake off the shock though).

[jubaji]

I think it's pretty obvious that these drunken-stylists where trained in Japan by a japanese teacher. Not that it should matter, but this time it obviously does. .

.........................................? ?

[Oliver]

Well, I for one sure would not try any of Wing Chun's knee stomps without shoes on. Many TCMA's use boots or regular shoes and practice on a hard surface. I do not consider anything to be more traditional just because one has been studying for 50 years, but Hung Gar is a TCMA.
Wushu I don't know much about, but I've seen demonstarations of it a number of times and they were invariably barefoot.
Not like the TCMA's I've studied over the years, we always wore shoes and practised on a hard surface.
Considering Gong Fu kicks, stomps and sweeps to be at least partially designed for use with footwear is not nonsense. Gong Fu has been around for about 2000 years in one form ore another, and during most of that time it's been used in war by soldiers or in rebellions by rivaling tribes or clans.
All footwear worn in those days wasn't heavy, but it was significant enough to make a difference when kicking and it's not too far fetched to consider the possibility of some techniques adapting to its existance. For instance, there are some kicks in Northern styles where you actually hit with the tip of the foot. I've tried it with Gong fu boots and it worked fine. I've also tried it barefoot and... no. And I know they didn't wear the exact same type of boots a thousand years ago, but at leas they wore something on their feet.

I do agree though that the karatekas, although easily kicking these guys in the head, really didn't win anything. And it wouldn't be really fair anyhow because Chinese boxing has got a number of techniques in it that can't really be used in a friendly comparison of skill.

And what I meant by saying it obviously made a difference that these guys are trained in Japan, is that what they do doesn't look like Gong Fu.
It looks more like Karate with drunken elements put into it.
And Karate is from Japan.

[Drunken Munky]

From what I know in general, the purpose (I should really say 'a' purpose) of training in Shoes, could be, that you are more likely to defend yourself while wearing shoes so train in them. However, a purpose of training in bare foot, could be, to get better at, and have a better understanding of rooting; rooting is a very important aspect of CMA. (Footware can make it difficult when trying to train this, especially stiff soled shoes)

For instance, there are some kicks in Northern styles where you actually hit with the tip of the foot. I've tried it with Gong fu boots and it worked fine. I've also tried it barefoot and... no. And I know they didn't wear the exact same type of boots a thousand years ago, but at leas they wore something on their feet.

I know this kick as a piercing kick. Karate' Do also have this kick, they are barefoot, but what they do is bend the toes up when doing this kick. But, when practising this kick in shoes, most shoes are usually too stiff to bend the toes up, or the shoes support the toes enough during this kick, so there is no point in bending the toes up.

And what I meant by saying it obviously made a difference that these guys are trained in Japan, is that what they do doesn't look like Gong Fu.
It looks more like Karate with drunken elements put into it.
And Karate is from Japan.

I've seen a discussion of this video on another bulletin board, I think it was the 'MartialArtsPlanet' forum. Someone, there also said that 'Drunken Boxing' school in the video, was actually a Japanese school, trying to mimic or copy the Chinese version of the art, to come up with their own style of it. Unfortunately, these surposed Drunken Jap's seem to only look at the aesthetics of the art, instead of understaning what is going on, on the inside of a person. Funniliy enough, the older guy sitting down (who seems to be the Master of Drunken style in the video), speaks in Japanese.

[Shard]

It really doesn't matter if i'm learning my karate from a Scotish or my Brazilian Jujitsu from a Japanese.
As long as they teach it properly. I don't give a flying F**K who their daddy was. Race has nothing to do with martial ability. Its kinda like Saying all Chinese are Bruce Lee. Or something like If you are japanese White belt, you are better than an American Green belt. Shit i tell you.

That being said. These guys just suck. They are so bad they actually scared the karate guys.

[Oliver]

I agree with Drunken Monkey, if you wear shoes or boots there's no use trying to bend your toes. That is what I meant by stating that some techniques in the TCMA's may actually have been influenced by circumstances such as having footwear on while fighting.

I would also like to clarify that I do not think that race matters when teaching or learning martial arts.
My reference to these guys being trained in Japan (which in itself should not matter), was merely an attempt to link their techniques to Karate which is, after all, Japanese. I realize, though, that it may have come out wrong and that I would have been better off simply arguing that their moves is somewhat Karate-like. Peace.

[jubaji]

hey a-hole

Unfortunately, these surposed Drunken Jap's seem to only look at the aesthetics of the art, .

The word is 'Japanese'

Do you call Chinese people Chi's?

[Phil Elnore]

Ignorance. Drunken Monkey form is based on the movement of a real monkey, not anyone from any particular race. How stupid you people are.

The trick is to ensure that the beast is under the influence of something (not necessarily alcoholic) and then study how it compenstaes. This is easier to do is you befriend someone who works in an appropriate establishment (i.e. a zoo or similar).

[Drunken Munky]

The word is 'Japanese'

Do you call Chinese people Chi's?

Sorry if I offended you. I used the word Japs, to mean Japanese, but when I came to the end of writting my post, my car lift for work arrived. So to save some time, I shortened some words, and missed off some content.

If you look roughly 2 lines up from the word Japs, you see the word Japanese used.

A lot of war films here in the West, use the term Japs, to mean Japanese. I think this shortening of the word, came about during World War 2. Its similar to calling the Germans, Jerries, I guess.

There was no offence intended.

Other examples could be:
Chinese = Chinks
Australians = Aussies
English (British) = Britts
Americans = Yanks
Scottish = Scotts
etc... etc...

I'll be more careful in the future.

[Drunken Munky]

Ignorance. Drunken Monkey form is based on the movement of a real monkey, not anyone from any particular race. How stupid you people are.

Who mentioned the Drunken Monkey style?

[Phil Elnore]

Isn't it oblivious?

[Drunken Munky]

Isn't it oblivious?

[Below]- In Post #4 of this topic.

{BTW, as we are talking about a Drunken Style, my user name is "Drunken Munky", however this came from the Clothes and skating trademark 'drunknmunky' not the CMA style}

[jubaji]

in the Jackass exhibit

The trick is to ensure that the beast is under the influence of something (not necessarily alcoholic) and then study how it compenstaes. This is easier to do is you befriend someone who works in an appropriate establishment (i.e. a zoo or similar).

How fortunate for you that you live in one!