Wing Chun power

[Thai Bri]

Check away. But, like I pointed out, Dave is no longer part of the Sam Kwok organisation, just like Kevin Chan.

The second to the last time I saw Sam Kwok was at a grading conducted circa 1984 in Burslem. On the grading before I had been "double" promoted (2 grades at once) owing to my perceived prowess.

On the second grading things didn't go so well. I was demonstrating techniques exactly as I had been taught by Keving and Dave, but Sam was unimpressed. He pointed out flaws in all of us. Dave and Keving made "tut tut" noises about how poor we were performing..... but we ALL made the same "mistakes." We were all performing as we had been taght, and it was clear to me that the error had been in the teaching methods.

I passed anyway, but this was yet another reason I left the organisation.

The very last time I saw him was a little while later. I went down to a WC club in Manchester (at some hall on Oldham Street). Sam turned up and taught it.

There were no shower facilities, and I was travelling home in my training clothes to shopwer later. He said "Get Changed!" and seemed quite angry that I had no other clothes to change into. Even after I explained he kept on telling me to get changed. But why get 2 sets of clothes sweaty?

I never went back! Haw haw haw!

[Troll Virus]

Haw haw haw.
20 odd years ago eh.

Doesn't it make you feel old when only you age and mature, while everyone else stands still?

Of course, you yourself are constant/never changing eh?

EGO time.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

I'd just like to point out that some things. People are saying a boxer is out of his element if he fights a wingchun guy in close quarters. How close quarters exactly are we talking here? You guys are almost implying that they're fighting in a narrow corridor that's shoulder length apart, if that's the case, what art, let alone what person, would be able to fight effectively in this condition?
Second, boxers don't necessarily have to rely on their footwork and circle his opponent, inside fighting is still an option. If they were to get clinched up do they stop hitting? Probably not, they'd probably start dirty boxing.

I've said what I had to say so I'll retreat back into the shadow on this one, this topic's been argued too many times. I am the emanance gris!

[Tom Yum]

That was a pretty nice arm bar that Orr used to finish the fight. I wonder where he learned that?

The same style that Mo Smith or Kimo learned it.

[Thai Bri]

Haw haw haw.
20 odd years ago eh.

Doesn't it make you feel old when only you age and mature, while everyone else stands still?

Of course, you yourself are constant/never changing eh?

EGO time.

Where did I ever say that everyone else stands still little fellah?

[Troll Virus]

Where did I ever say that everyone else stands still little fellah?

You know like when you constantly harp on about a few classes you took about twenty years ago and you just can't let it go.
That'd suggest to me that you have issues.
Like I pointed out, gave evidence even many times previously that things clearly are not as they were 'in your day', you just can't leave it alone, rozzer.

[Thai Bri]

Tell me how Sam classes have developed in 20 years. Ironically it is the Kevin Chans and Alan Orr's of this world who are taking Wing Chun forwards...... although only by increasinglyincluding other arts and leaving WC behind.

If either of them had come from boxing or Judo etc... do you really think they would have adopted WC into their systems? I don't.

By the way, just how many times have you called me a liar, saying that I did not train in WC in Sams lineage at all? Do you now admit that my posts show that I clearly did?

[Troll Virus]

By the way, just how many times have you called me a liar, saying that I did not train in WC in Sams lineage at all?

Why don't you provide links to those?

I'll then provide you with links on threads illustrating just how much Sams lineage has progressed in the last twenty years. Those links were posted here already, but you chose to ignore them.

[fire cobra]

Thaibri,how can someone take something forward by training in something else?!,surely thats changing from something to something else? evolving? but its not the same something as in the first place! if you see what i mean.The way i see wing chun is the principles are sound,eg hit throat, hit eyes, hit the joints of the arms and legs,straight line hitting for economy,short range strikes(the distance closes quick) etc etc,all sound in my mind,but..a lot of the people in wing chun(and of course other arts) have never had a serious scrap in there lifes(a good thing for your health) so dont understand how to use the wing chun principles in a real fight,and they often over theorise the art,at the end of the day we all do martial arts for our own reasons,i belive the best reason is for a healthy body and mind and to have some fun with friends(my reasons now for training) we should always try to keep in mind the unpredictability of real fighting,and the old romany saying "sometimes you get the bear sometimes the bear gets you" or as my mate(veteran of a couple hundred street fights) says "even monkeys fall out of trees"good training everyone

[Thai Bri]

I don't mind what someone studies, though I do like to scrutinise their claims. Often they don't seem to cut the mustard.

But one of the common tactics from people from this or that art is to point to someone who actually gets whatever useable skills they have from something else.... but then claim it as the original art.

I thought we would have all learned that when Kimo called himself a TKD guy in UFC 3, and used nothing but wrestling!

[fire cobra]

I agree with your comment about people taking claim to things from other arts thaibri,credit should be given where credit is due.

[Red Rum]

Tell me how Sam classes have developed in 20 years. Ironically it is the Kevin Chans and Alan Orr's of this world who are taking Wing Chun forwards...... although only by increasinglyincluding other arts and leaving WC behind.

If either of them had come from boxing or Judo etc... do you really think they would have adopted WC into their systems? I don't.

Yes. Many of our newest students are ex-professional boxers, BJJ guys, karate guys or havbe doen some kind of martial art before. Even one of my students is a brown belt in TKD.

There are many people in the world who want a close quarter striking art and cannot find it in the other arts they have done. I do boxing on a regular basis but when someone shuts you down it is hard to use your power on them.
Therefore I prefer to use my wing chun in these kind of scenarios

Many people have mentined about the close quarter nature of fights (tight corridors, etc). Realistically when a fight happens, it goes into a clinch very quickly. People tend to hold on to each other during fights, and a lot of arts don't know how to handle this. I have trained in arts where they have told me to use two hands to remove his one hand which is ineffective and inefficient. In the wing chun that we do, we learn to mold round the person's energy (force), but in a realistic way.

I agree that you can if you are a good boxer you will probably knock out an attacker faster than any other art. Yet when it comes to a realistic fight, you have to consider your environment which limits movement and adaptability.

I saw a fight in Kingston recently where a guy got knee-ed right in the chest by an obviously experienced martial artist. The guy flew into a crowd of people and they joined in on the guy's side.

I'm just saying that wing chun is incredibly useful in these street environments. But it is not better than any other martial art overall.

Some arts are designed for competition and some arts are designed for fighting. Along the way, many practitioners (Kevin Chan and Alan Orr, mentioned previously for example) recognise that you can't always stick to the one style to win the day.

[jubaji]

wing chun is strongest in the 'theorizing' range

I'm just saying that wing chun is incredibly useful in these street environments.

You guess, you suppose, above all you hope...

[Thai Bri]

Hope springs eternal.

We are back to the question of evidence. Beyond half truths and lies, where actually is it?

Like I have said before, the only "evidence" WC produces is either unsubtantiated or, worse than that, includes looking at people "play" fighting. And, of course, the old favourite of seeing "Wing Chun" guys do MMA.....

If WC can do all these great things, once again..... where is the evidence?

[Uke]

In the end, the truth lies in doing a thing, not talking about it. Everyone is entitled to their opinions about whatever style, man, weapon, etc. But if that opinion isn't based on experience, or very limited experience, then that opinion is just sour grapes.

That's what's wrong here. Too many people base their martial knowledge on what books they have read or what YouTube video there is to watch. There are real men who you'll never see on YouTube that would easily put foot to ass using wing chun out in the world, but when they are spoken of, you get asked where their video is.

Life is in the living, not critiquing the latest media from the comfort of a computer. And if the only evidence that you look for is on the internet, then of course you can live happily believing whatever you wish to be true due to no cyber-proof being uploaded yet.