Wing Chun power

[jubaji]

Believe me, one of Thai Bri's posts are worth 889 times more than some other loser's efforts written to waste all of our time.

Aw, don't get so down on yourself lil' fella.


On second thought, go ahead...

[Hardball]

http://webhost5.nts.jhu.edu/kclub/sifu.html

My former Wing Chun School. I have no idea what Thai Bri is talking about when he disses wing chun. LOL or as Thai would type Haw Haw Haw

[jubaji]

How many members have simply stopped posting because of your abrasive manner?

And how many whiny little b!ches are gonna wring this pointless crying towel to no point and no effect? Gosh, how many people visited this site and didn't like the color scheme and so never registered? Answer: Who the #$%&^* cares? The ghost vote is not counted.

[Troll Virus]

And how many whiny little b!ches are gonna wring this pointless crying towel to no point and no effect? Gosh, how many people visited this site and didn't like the color scheme and so never registered? Answer: Who the #$%&^* cares? The ghost vote is not counted.

As far as I'm concerned....
You don't practice Wing Chun.
You have never practiced Wing Chun.
You have no interest in Wing Chun.
What are you doing on this thread?

It wouldn't exactly be the first time you have posted on a thread so far removed from your area of expertise that it makes Hilary Clinton look like a Quantum Physics Graduate.
Make it your last though eh, cos you're working your way up my list of gobshites needing taking down a peg or two.

[jubaji]

Make it your last though eh, cos you're working your way up my list of gobshites needing taking down a peg or two.

Oh no! Not that! AAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jubaji]

You have never practiced Wing Chun.
You have no interest in Wing Chun..

When did I say that?

[Sagacious Lu]

Yes indeed. That's exactly what I'm saying. The training methods, and the man (or woman) in the fight will always, always matter more than the style.

How else can you explain the historical fact that different people from the same styles win some and lose some? In fact, if one "style" is best, then logically, all of the people in that style should be unbeatable by anyone else, let alone members of their iwn style, right?

It's a pointless debate about an even more pointless subject.

I wouldn't say that there was one "best style" but there are definately training methods that have been proven to be effective, and there are some methods that just don't work. Some styles have their training methods built right into the system. That means that in order to practice certain styles (I'm think specifically of my experience with Tiger/Crane kung fu here) you are required to spend a lot of time doing things that will not improve your ability in the name of tradition. It's like reaching around your head to scratch your chin; you might just be able to make it work but that doesn't mean there isn't a better way to do it. Granted a lot of people get pissed off when someone points this out to them but whether it hurts their feelings or not it's still a valid point.

[Tom Yum]

Good stuff, Mike.

Attention to details.

[Hardball]

Mike, good job on describing the DISCIPLINE that the Army taught you. I train, not only to be a good fighter but to handle Multiple attacks. Secondary for me, training helps me keep a strong mind, body and spirit. So to tie into the topic, I'd say that Wing Chun taught me some things about fighting but a lot of things about Mind, Body and spirit. Your health is your wealth.

[Thai Bri]

Mike,

I never said there was a "best" style. Not at all, though I do feel that the early 90s saw all kinds of arts represented...... and then, over time, the majority of victorious fighters chose from a menu of similar techniques and similar training methods.

I know where you are getting at re your take on my running analogy. I think we are a little at apples and oranges. I'm talking technique, whereas you're talking training methods.

Even a MMA guy will get creamed if all he does is bizarre MMA "forms", air punching and wall bag punching - all very commonly recognised WC training methods......

But imagine WC being trained intensively. Like the guys we saw in Troll's film.... just where was the actual Wing Chun? Yes, I agree that their training methods have made them better fighters than they would be if they had stuck with the air punching. But, like I said in some detail, what "Wing Chun" was left? A tiny amount, and those bits didn't acheive anything.

We can split the three things:-

Man
Training method.
Technique

All arts have the men (and women), and we have all seen examples of people so tough they could make embroidery work! But these people are few and far between.

All clubs "can" adopt great training methods. Getting down and dirty, working hard to achive impact, timing etc. etc. These good methods are comparitively rare in WC.

Now techniques? If the people using great training methods, the Alan Orrs and the Kevin Chans of this world, end up fighting in ways that do NOT include Wing Chun technique in the mix when they actually fight, then just how much better would they be if they had never walked into a Wing Chun club in the first place?

We still wait for the film of WC techniques being effectively used against a resisting opponent. The nearest we have, like I predicted, are people claiming to be Wing Chun, but actually using MMA techniques and MMA training methods.

[Thai Bri]

.....but a lot of things about Mind, Body and spirit. Your health is your wealth.

So what things did WC teach you that Karate, BJJ, Boxing wouldn't? Or Yoga, or Pilates...... or Ping Pong?

[Tom Yum]

By the same token, I know plenty of guys - and I mean thousands of them - that I'd stand in front of with a blindfold on and my hands cuffed behind me if I knew all they were allowed to throw were "boxing" punches. To say that some of these people couldn't break a potato chip with their best punch is not an exaggeration. And that's with "superior" boxing tools.

Mike is referencing me.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5c1e4a690e

Continue...

[Hardball]

So what things did WC teach you that Karate, BJJ, Boxing wouldn't? Or Yoga, or Pilates...... or Ping Pong?

How not to get my Arse kicked. How the average street fight last 3 to 5 seconds. How it feels to have my forearms slapped full strength by an instructor who is certified in Iron Palm. How to be comrades and brothers in face of adversity. How Chi Sao Drills and the Sil Lum Tao form can improve my concentration and help me "Feel" and Use instinct instead of premediated movements. How to repect other systems and instructors no matter how much I may disagree with their philosophy. That's the problem I have with you Thai Bri, You don't respect Wing Chun one bit. Not liking it is one thing but to disrespect it and it's rich lineage is insulting to me. I don't like Krav Magra's Marketing Strategy but I have learn to respect their core goals and values. Respect, that's all I ask. Respect wing chun whether you like it or not.

[Troll Virus]

Please face reality. A tough fighter who has trained what he does in a combative manner and has the mindset to do real harm without remorse will probably be every bit the handful whether he's a wing chun man or a YMCA product of American kurotty. The style is not the most important factor. EVER.

Amen!

What I would urge ( and this is no blind idolatry), is that if you have the opportunity to train Wing Chun with Sam Kwok (not one of his students), you do so.
Don't care what your self perceived level of ability is.
Do it!
If you do, then voice your deepest concerns.
I'll personally guarantee you that Sam will give you an answer, or admit he doesn't know one.
If you ask him a question he doesn't have an answer for, then I also guarantee you that he will the next time you ask him.

It's tragic to me, that Thai Bri trained under some of his students, all those years ago and gained nothing/wasted a year.
I, on the other hand, gained a great deal from direct tuition.

[Troll Virus]

My exposure to WC is only through what is left in JKD. I personally have found a lot of value in trapping. I know others have dropped a lot of it, but we started from boxing type hand work and added trapping to it, instead of the other way round. Perhaps that made the difference I don't know.

Much of the technique I've seen of WC has been usable, and even helpful when the opportunity presents itself.

I think that's possibly the best view of contemporary Wing Chun there is.

As opposed to getting overly involved in the myriad of theories in the system, simply taking a few principles that work and adapting those is a good thing.

To say 'trapping' doesn't work is ridiculous.
What better strategy could you employ in 'Ground n Pound' than trapping both arms of your opponent with one of yours, leaving another free to Pound?