Why I don't practice kung fu anymore

[Thai Bri]

If learning to fight is your goal? Then you definately 100% would.

Ask any Thai Boxer. You know the ones.... the ones who win in stand up competitions against Kung Fu "masters" until, that is, the "kung fu" guy starts to train like the Thai Boxer!

Haw haw haw!

[Troll Virus]

If learning to fight is your goal? Then you definately 100% would.

Ask any Thai Boxer. You know the ones.... the ones who win in stand up competitions against Kung Fu "masters" until, that is, the "kung fu" guy starts to train like the Thai Boxer!

Haw haw haw!

How many do you know Thai Bri?

[shaolin-warrior]

Sag:
I haven't posted in a long while because most threads don't stay on point. I hope you find a school that meets your needs because i agree with you. Unless you train with full contact, your not realy training. Forms are traditional, we learn forms at my school, but we realize their value and take them for what they are. We also know that most fights will not be against a trained fighter but against a brawler and more than likely end up on the ground. So many T.C.M.A. Schools wont admit that because they are not equipted to teach that, so the students loose out.
Take some comfort in the fact that your time although spent on repetitious learning of forms, was not wasted. The journey that a man makes through life, the paths he chooses and the victories and losses that are his own, make him who he his.

[Thai Bri]

How many do you know Thai Bri?

I know me. I was a Kung Fu guy (aomongst other things). I walked into a Thai Boxing club and I had a few fights.

Does that count?

[Troll Virus]

I know me. I was a Kung Fu guy (aomongst other things). I walked into a Thai Boxing club and I had a few fights.

Does that count?

Nope.

It's a simple question (repeated);

Ask any Thai Boxer. You know the ones.... the ones who win in stand up competitions against Kung Fu "masters" until, that is, the "kung fu" guy starts to train like the Thai Boxer!

Name us a Kung Fu master or so.
You being a "Kung Fu guy" after all of a years training should have no difficulty with that.

C'mon then?

[pbicmhc]

All martial arts are ultimately about yourself. They are for you. Wether you think the information is useful or not is up to you. You have the final say in what you will accept, what you will believe, and what you consider crap.

But think of this first: If you are in the 1st grade just learning the basics of the alphabet and what words are, how can you perceive and judge the quality and content of Shakspeares writings?

I have had this same quandary thrust upon me in numerous ways, both as a student and as a teacher. I saw it in Aikido, and I see it everywhere today. There are students; beginners with only a few months or years training in the basics, (and by beginners I mean anyone with less than 10 hard years training under a very good teacher) who question and say that "This dont work." "This is no good." "I want it now." and so forth.

Dont get me wrong Lu, I put myself in your shoes everyday. I constantly question my art, my ability, my knowledge and my training, but I have had a long time to look at it, and I can see the value that can be derived from all the different aspects of training.
To me, its irrelevent that their are forms that seem to teach no useful purpose, or techniques that dont work or whatnot. I look at them from a different standpoint. I use my acquired knowledge and understanding of the "CORE" of the arts to change that technique into one that does work, to find a use for that useless form, to find a purpose for what is taught me, regardless of its superficial first impression of being worthless.

In this way, I weed out the real useless stuff and I expand my ability to utilize my knowledge in other ways. A form may seem useless to a boxer, but a form properly done, can provide all three sides of the fitness triangle, it can be used as a method to teach discipline in young students, it can be modified to help older people stretch and use their body, it can be blended into a different style (like aikido) just to see if I have the ability to modify my movement, to work my mind. I can find a way to use just about anything taught in the arts now.

My point is, that you may have outgrown your school. You have reached the point where you are not challenged enough. But you still have the ability to challenge yourself.
Take all the info you have learned, and figure out ways to make it work. Remove what you feel is in adequate and make it all "yours". After all this training you have been thru,
I am sure you have enough material to keep you busy a long time.

And that is what I think the arts are about. And that is why I say the arts are for you.

Hope this viewpoint helps. Sometimes you just need to get away from it to learn why you really want it.
Randy M.

(while you had a teacher thru most your time, I spent a number of years without one and subsequently only had the knowledge I had gained to work with - so I tore things about and re-learned them, practiced them different ways, with different arts, and so forth.....maybe this helped me see things differently)

[Sagacious Lu]

Bump bump bump

[Akira]

Really interesting discussion. Props to the OP and to everyone who replied.

I learned kung fu for years..but one thing I never liked was the kicks, and the defense against low kicks. I now work in BKK as a professional thai boxer and I've seen many kung fu fighters get defeated against muay thai. However, this was with muay thai rules and wearing gloves, so obviously the kung fu fighter was at a disadvantage.

Kung fu has always felt like a more natural way of fighting for me, and I've used it a few times in sparring to defeat muay thai fighters. From what I've experienced, a kung fu fighter just can't handle muay thai kicks, much the same way a muay thai fighter can't handle some of the kung fu holds and grabs.

Each to their own but very interesting discussion. Thanks.

[JadeDragon]

The kung fu school that I used to train at was great. The techniques that we practiced could be used for real. They weren't just "fluff" techniques being taught just to teach something. We were also taught the application of the techniques against a resisting opponent. We were taught how, when, and where to apply the technique. For examlple, we would get in a grappling situation and then my teacher would have us stop but keep the position we were in and he would tell us what particular animal technique might best be used. Then we would go back to grappling for a little bit and then he would stop us again and do the same thing. Or he would ask us what technique do we think would work in this situation. We would also practice different types of grabs, chokes, etc.. and demonstrate different techniques on how to escape these situations. My kung fu has never let me down and I've been in a few fights in my day and have bounced at a few bars as well.

[pstevens]

Why is this guy, Troll Virus, such a prick? The point here is quite simple; Sag was unhappy with his kung-fu experience and decided to voice it. No biggy...

Heck, I tried a couple of things before settling on what I do today. The karate I did as a kid is basically useless compared to the MMA I've recently trained. It's all about the delivery system and the person who's motivated to train. Yes, it's a 2-part equation. You need the right delivery system and the the right person/mindset.

So go out and find what works for you, buddy. That's all anyone can do.

[jmd161]

There is no mystery as to why the majority of kung fu stylist fail in fighting. Many learn kung fu in a controlled designed program, that is not realistic, if you plan on using it in a real situation. Many learn from a teacher that has never fought using the very techniques they are teaching. The basics are very important in anything you do martial arts or otherwise, but how many people actually focus seriously on basics when learning kung fu?

A true kung fu class should not look much different than a MMA class. If you walked into our class you would not think we were training kung fu at all. You won't see much form work, and if you did... you'd see us working the techniques from the form not just doing them as a dance or set of movements. You would see us working from every range even on the ground with actual kung fu, not BJJ/MMA and claiming it is kung fu. You would see us working against BJJ/MMA stylist that also train with us using their BJJ/MMA against our kung fu. We learn from a sifu that has actually fought using his kung fu. We learn from a sifu that has a open mind in learning as much as you can as long as it works in actual combat.

There is so much more, as to why most kung fu is worthless, but it would take a lot more than i'm willing to write about here.

jeff

[Sagacious Lu]

There is no mystery as to why the majority of kung fu stylist fail in fighting. Many learn kung fu in a controlled designed program, that is not realistic, if you plan on using it in a real situation. Many learn from a teacher that has never fought using the very techniques they are teaching. The basics are very important in anything you do martial arts or otherwise, but how many people actually focus seriously on basics when learning kung fu?

A true kung fu class should not look much different than a MMA class. If you walked into our class you would not think we were training kung fu at all. You won't see much form work, and if you did... you'd see us working the techniques from the form not just doing them as a dance or set of movements. You would see us working from every range even on the ground with actual kung fu, not BJJ/MMA and claiming it is kung fu. You would see us working against BJJ/MMA stylist that also train with us using their BJJ/MMA against our kung fu. We learn from a sifu that has actually fought using his kung fu. We learn from a sifu that has a open mind in learning as much as you can as long as it works in actual combat.

There is so much more, as to why most kung fu is worthless, but it would take a lot more than i'm willing to write about here.

jeff

I can appreciate what you're saying, but it does raise a question. If you're spending very little time on the forms are you still doing traditional kung fu or does it become something else that you've based on traditional methods? Also, we spent a lot of time on the combat applications of the forms, but they were all choreographed drills; it took a long time just to memorize the choreography which didn't help you actually use the techniques.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

I can appreciate what you're saying, but it does raise a question. If you're spending very little time on the forms are you still doing traditional kung fu or does it become something else that you've based on traditional methods? Also, we spent a lot of time on the combat applications of the forms, but they were all choreographed drills; it took a long time just to memorize the choreography which didn't help you actually use the techniques.

Perhaps the removal of forms could be the evolution of kungfu that focuses more on application? I know in Judo the Katas are rarely taught anymore and if they are it is simply for traditional belt promotions.

[jmd161]

I can appreciate what you're saying, but it does raise a question. If you're spending very little time on the forms are you still doing traditional kung fu or does it become something else that you've based on traditional methods? Also, we spent a lot of time on the combat applications of the forms, but they were all choreographed drills; it took a long time just to memorize the choreography which didn't help you actually use the techniques.

My sifu is near 60 yrs old, he teaches us exactly how he was taught by his sifu. My sigung learned directly from some of kung fu's best known traditional masters and taught my sifu the way he was taught. So I'd say this is very traditional training. We do forms but not the Mc Dojo way most so called traditional schools do, but the way they were intended. Forms are a guide and a tool to be used when your sifu is not around,not as the basis of the entire style.

We do drills but not choreographed drills. All drills do is teach you how to use a against b and c against d...fights aren't choreographed so choreographed drills are useless in actual fighting. Again this stuff is meant to be a guide not what you base your fighting off..no two people are going to react alike or move alike. You have to work each technique on your own and adjust it so that it works for you.


jeff

[Ben Grimm]

I train using my forms but I also train using drills and so on.