Chinese Kung Fu: Which style is worth it?

[Genox6]

I just have a simple question. Out of all the different traditional chinese martial arts styles, which one would be the most effective in actual combat? I've heard good things about Bajiquan, and it's actually what I'm most interested in at the moment. I've also heard some mixed opinions about Wing Chun and Hung Gar.

[Red Rum]

Without a doubt, wing chun is the best kung fu for combat. It is nicknamed the street fighting art of Hong Kong for one simple reason - it kicks ass...

Like I have said previously, one art alone will not win you the day and certainly it does depend on how you take to the art (ie if you don't understand wing chun then you can be worse at fighting than another art).

I too have heard good things about Bajiquan, but it looks like they rely a lot on shoulder strikes and hip checks.

They also seem to think that one or two of their moves will end a person and are unmoved in this belief. Even in wing chun where an elbow strike is extremely powerful, you have to concede that sometimes it will take more than three moves to floor a guy.

[Genox6]

Thanks for the reply. The problem I see with Wing Chun is, as shown in the video the guy posted in this thread, some of their techniques don't seem that powerful. Infact, a lot of their moves seem almost like a liability. Of course, it could simply be the instructor's fault.

Also, I realize I'm going to need more than one art to make myself a competent fighter. Although I haven't trained professionally yet, a friend has been teaching me some BJJ and Muay Thai, and I've also been practicing some San Da. I'm planning on starting some real training soon, but since I'm not really interested in 'mastering' a style, I want to mix and match as many different martial arts as I can. Although I guess San Da is somewhat considered a form of kung fu, I figure I can increase my versatility by obtaining some useful methods from traditional styles as well.

[tsefreeflow]

Its not the style that is more or less effective, but what you as a practicioner can do with what you learn!

[Tom Yum]

They also seem to think that one or two of their moves will end a person and are unmoved in this belief. Even in wing chun where an elbow strike is extremely powerful, you have to concede that sometimes it will take more than three moves to floor a guy.

Maybe 5-6 chain punches thrown in too?

Straight blasts can knock people silly, but they don't seem to knock them out. Chops and spear fingers are pretty devastating as well - you can't count them out. Even if a "lucky" spear finger lands where its intended, its going to mess up the recipient.

Why do medium to large-framed men study wingchun when they are built for strength and power? I can see an older man wanting to pick it up or a sub 150-lb guy doing it.

[Red Rum]

I am twenty five stone (fat b*stard) and I have found that wing chun gives me a very formidable edge when fighting. Most people expect me to blast out with power, so are shocked to find that I can fight close quarter and in a very fast way. Strength is good, but if you rely on it you will often tire yourself out. As for wing chun being bad for power, that is laughable. I can generate double the power in a hit with wing chun than I can on just swinging a hook in. You have to make sure that when you do wing chun, the wing chun is realistic and that it works. I always give demos using my students when new people come to my class and any questions they have about fighting are answered. What is the point of doing a martial art for ten years and then finding it doesn’t work? Most of our students at Kamon become very good fighters after about a years worth of training (training once a week). Other schools I have been to can’t fight properly after six years!!

Take a look at our vid https://www.kamonwingchun.com/galler...BE_MONTAGE.wmv
and you will get an idea of power use in wing chun works. It is useless to think that doing chain punching in every situation will save you. To be honest I don’t like chain punching and rarely use it to fight.

[Sagacious Lu]

As for wing chun being bad for power, that is laughable. I can generate double the power in a hit with wing chun than I can on just swinging a hook in.

What sort of strike do you use to generate double the power of a hook? The link you posted doesn't work for me. A good hook has the potential to finish your opponent in one shot. I suspect that you feel this way more because your hooks need more work than anything else.

[Red Rum]

What sort of strike do you use to generate double the power of a hook? The link you posted doesn't work for me. A good hook has the potential to finish your opponent in one shot. I suspect that you feel this way more because your hooks need more work than anything else.

It is a wing chun power strike (huen bo punch). A hook is good and it usually knocks an opponent off his feet, but it is cumbersome and people can often see it coming (especially martial artists who train to see hooks every day). As with all things - everything can be improved. But my wing chun punch which I have trained for years can hit from a small distance and generate a lot of power.

It is a different type of force from a hook punch but it generates (in my case much more power), because all of your bodyweight is going through it (as opposed to the top half of your body, as in a boxers punch)

This is by no means starting a wing chun vs boxing debate. Both have their merits, but they are two seperate things. I train both and I am good at both.

[Tom Yum]

It is a different type of force from a hook punch but it generates (in my case much more power), because all of your bodyweight is going through it (as opposed to the top half of your body, as in a boxers punch)

Hook uses the legs and hips too. Here's a vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F256qCZtzAc

You place your weight on your lead leg, then explode that lead leg while popping your hips through the target.

This is by no means starting a wing chun vs boxing debate. Both have their merits, but they are two seperate things. I train both and I am good at both.

[Red Rum]

Hook uses the legs and hips too. Here's a vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F256qCZtzAc

You place your weight on your lead leg, then explode that lead leg while popping your hips through the target.

I can't access vids unfortunately, but I know what you are trying to say. Your theory is misplaced though. While the hips and legs are used to rotate through the punch, the energies are disjointed. The overall power comes from the top half.

The lower half is merely there to set the punch up.
Although it feels as though your base is giving you power, it is not. It is there to provide balance and position.

I have thrown many hooks from many styles (including the wing chun hook punch and the jeet kune do power punch - which I consider weaker than a boxers hook), so please don't make the mistake of thinking I am talking out of my as*

[Sagacious Lu]

It is a different type of force from a hook punch but it generates (in my case much more power), because all of your bodyweight is going through it (as opposed to the top half of your body, as in a boxers punch)

This is by no means starting a wing chun vs boxing debate. Both have their merits, but they are two seperate things. I train both and I am good at both.

I'm not trying to argue WC vs. Boxing (there isn't any point in that) but this simply is not true. When a boxer throws a proper hook he gets all his body weight into it by using his legs and hips. That's why so many knock outs come from hooks.

[shaolin-warrior]

Lu, your absolutely right on. A properly executed hook starts at the back foot and ends at the fist. But I understand Rums reasoning, a well trained martial artist can generate just as much power with a straight punch without the telegraphing movements of a hook. Thus beating a circle with a straight line.

[Red Rum]

Yes. In a boxers hook, it is believed that all of his bodyweight is transferred into the punch. It's not true. I had been told this years ago by several boxing trainers, but thought they were joking with me. I also recently watched a boxing programme where the narrator actually admitted this.

It doesn't mean that the punch is not powerful. Sheer momentum from the swing means that you are acheiving a lot of force. But if you think logically about where the punch is coming from. It is coming from the side of your body. This means that your body is not behind it (ie you are just relying on muscle). You and shaolin warrior are correct that the force generated from your feet transfer into the hit. But this is not bodyweight.

To answer your point about knockouts, knockout happen because of the accuracy of the hit. Some people you can knock out with the slightest blows and others you have to dig in and keep hitting

If you reversed the punch so that you pressed against the boxers hook, you would find that there is no weight behind it. In a wing chun punch there is.

Like I said, it doesn't make either better, but I just (personally) prefer the wing chun turn punch

[shaolin-warrior]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKRdUoyUEp4

this is pretty informative, check it out.

[Red Rum]

I don't have access to YouTube (which is frustrating).

Sorry