Forms vs reality?

[white devil]

you know what i say is true...stop living in ancient rome and try to understand my analogy.im sorry your martial arts investement went down the drain...

the only good martial arts were free..ages ago......if you wanna train..train in a sport (mt,boxing,mma)

i personnaly think thoses who turn to traditional martial arts are looking for a secret ancient forbidden technique that will enlighten them with no punches in the face and no knocking them out HARD.

but hey..nobody said boxing is easy

[jubaji]

Nobody said reading your crap was easy either...

[shaolin-warrior]

you know what i say is true...stop living in ancient rome and try to understand my analogy.im sorry your martial arts investement went down the drain...

the only good martial arts were free..ages ago......if you wanna train..train in a sport (mt,boxing,mma)

i personnaly think thoses who turn to traditional martial arts are looking for a secret ancient forbidden technique that will enlighten them with no punches in the face and no knocking them out HARD.

but hey..nobody said boxing is easy

All kidding aside, you are joking, right?

[Mephariel]

you know what i say is true...stop living in ancient rome and try to understand my analogy.im sorry your martial arts investement went down the drain...

the only good martial arts were free..ages ago......if you wanna train..train in a sport (mt,boxing,mma)

i personnaly think thoses who turn to traditional martial arts are looking for a secret ancient forbidden technique that will enlighten them with no punches in the face and no knocking them out HARD.

but hey..nobody said boxing is easy

I am hoping you are young and naive so I can pardon your ridiculous posts.

[kuk sool won]

You can't look at a form as a whole, you need to break it down into smallers parts, each of the parts is a different technique which you practice when you do a form. It helps to develop these techniques

A lot of people who haven't been trained to fight can't really flow attacks into one another, its just a flurry of badly timed punches which don't really hold any true power. Take a boxer for instance, they all have their own little combinations even if its as simple as jab - straight. Same applies to some forms, punches flow into kicks, kicks flows into knees etc.

[polecat63]

It doesnt really make sense...its like a tennis player who trains to be the best at tennis by fixing bikes.

Yeah, they practice! If they want to learn how to hit backhand they hit backhand shots over and over...er..no wait. That would be like forms. DAMN!

[jubaji]

Yeah, they practice! If they want to learn how to hit backhand they hit backhand shots over and over...er..no wait. That would be like forms. DAMN!

That would NOT be like forms. If they just swung the racket without hitting the ball, over and over, moving around the court in a series of pre-planned steps, that would be sort of like forms.

[polecat63]

That would NOT be like forms. If they just swung the racket without hitting the ball, over and over, moving around the court in a series of pre-planned steps, that would be sort of like forms.

Spoilsport!

But I did something very similar when I played tennis in high school. We were made to swing the racket over and over again so we wouldn't have to think about it in an actual match. There, is that better?

Repetitive motion is used in many sports as a training exercise. Granted, many arts train movements that most professional dancers would be envious of, but form are not worthless.

[suhieb]

I stand with the previous posts i made about Forms vs Reality before this thread went downhill :P

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

FORMS ARE THE EQUILIVLANT OF KATA'S !!!!

Tai Chi is not an art that is designed to fight or be used in combat more to focus and allow your Chi to flow but it just has combat applications that give you "ideas" of what to do in a situation.

Suhieb

The taichi forms ive seen posted here are alot different than any Kata or shadow boxing-type forms in other arts. The taichi forms are like yoga almost while other Kata's are more like Taebo...

[jubaji]

Tai Chi is not an art that is designed to fight or be used in combat

............................


Who the hell told you that?

[shaolin-warrior]

Hello,

This was never made clear to me in my limited exposure to Kung Fu. When you do Kung Fu for real, either for sparring or self defense, how closely are your movements expected to match the moves in the forms? The question might seem silly but a lot of the Kung Fu I was taught seemed kind of choppy and not as quick and flowing as I would expect a fighting art to be, are the forms supposed to show the 'proper' movements that you should strive for or are some of them exaggerated to illustrate certain principles or what?

Thirty spokes share the wheels hub,
It is the center that makes it useful.
Shape clay into a vessel,
It is the space within that makes it useful.
Cut doors and windows for a room,
It is the holes which make it useful.
Therefore benefit comes from what is there,
Usefulness comes from what is not there.
LAO TSU

[makiwara]

The way I have always seen Kata (quanfa, Forms) is as an encyclopedia of techniques. They get your body used to moving and help you discern what types of techniques can flow togther with others. They help in balance and footwork as well. They are but one of many usefull tools in the martial arts. If you focus only on Kata you can move real pretty but can lack in proper timing, distance, and more. If you ignore kata you can lack cohesion and elasticity of movements.
I have always considered practicing one thing over and over again Standing or Moving Basics; good for control and begining muscle memory. Fighting is a science, and like any science has many facets that all work together to acheive it's form and function.
As for Tai Chi, my mother, (50 years old) did Shorin ryu for Five years, and now does Tai Chi. She practices it with combat in mind and has often foiled my brother (another seasoned martial artist) and me. I watch her practice and for every move or technique she does I see a plethora of applications. Never Knock an Art, Lest it Knock You Back.

[Troll Virus]

Hello,

This was never made clear to me in my limited exposure to kung fu. When you do kung fu for real, either for sparring or self defense, how closely are your movements expected to match the moves in the forms? You need to have an understanding of the term you use (Kung Fu) before asking that question.

'Kung Fu' is neither a style, nor an commonly defined code of practice

The question might seem silly but a lot of the kung fu I was taught seemed kind of choppy and not as quick and flowing as I would expect a fighting art to be, are the forms supposed to show the 'proper' movements that you should strive for or are some of them exaggerated to illustrate certain principles or what?

Herein, lies the thrust of most MA discussion forums.
So many arts, are full of 'technique collector' jewels and mystery, that the pedestrian observer is left struggling to make sense of it all.

It all makes sense when you actually have to perform for real.
Those that tell you they have done so, often turn out to be the most ignorant.

In particular, ignore those who use any kind of sporting format to justify comparison.
When you see that, you are observing idiocy.

[Red Rum]

This is all amusing....

Forms in wing chun are important as it trains everything together all at once. You could do drills and learn technique. You could meditate. You could do chi sao. But the form does all the structure, footwork, movement, meditation (..) and positioning all in one go. It is not something to rely on (ie someone who does just forms will not be a good martial artist), but they come in handy.