Wing Chun let me down in a fight

[Tom Yum]

Michael, Tried to pos-rep you on that but the comp won't let me.

[Guest]

I really appreciate that Tom thank you, still trying to spread the reps myself.

[Liberty]

Some of what I see in martial arts will probably reduce the odds of winning a fight, by conditioning people into nonsense techniques and routines, when their natural instincts, common sense and attributes would have probably prevailed.

You mean like these "forms" - beginning at 27 seconds into the clip (after the yellow sign)? Seriously, I'm curious about your take on this, Michael.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpsMoz-tRzo[/YOUTUBE]

[Guest]

My comments were not aimed at any one form, art, style or individual.

In my experience, every martial art is guilty of carrying excess weight that exists to swell curriculums and put more rungs on to the financial ladder.

And if you are trying to call me out on a certain art, which I think you were, then yes JKD Concepts is just as guilty as any other.

[Liberty]

LMAO! Man, don't change - PLEASE! It's aways refreshing how to the point you are. How do you continually pull that off without having to resort to insults to begin with? You, my friend, are one of a kind. I know - with a basebal bat, right - LOL!

[Liberty]

To be honest, I don't see what all the fuss has been about this guy. This video, for example, is ridiculous - this guy is highly praised by Dan Inosanto? This video and it's 2nd part are completely ludicrous. I almost expected that old bald guy from the Benny Hill sketches to come out and smack someone!

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYaEynmrvmc[/YOUTUBE]

[Guest]

I'm not really into posting videos about people then talking smack about them, whoever they are. We must have more positive things to discuss?

[Liberty]

I'm not really into posting videos about people then talking smack about them, whoever they are. We must have more positive things to discuss?

Okay, but you have gone there at times:

Regardless of how talented (Prince) Hamed was, I never liked him or supported his career. With fighters of real ability you always expect a level of supreme confidence and showmanship, but that isn’t what he had. He was just an arrogant, narcissistic, disrespectful little prick, both inside and outside of the ring. Life hasn’t turned out so well for him, can’t say I will be shedding a tear.

The Online Slang Dictionary | Definition of smack
smack (noun) offensive speech about another person.
"I hear you've been talking smack about me."

Unless you're calling someone what they were is somehow a right only you have. The self-defense video I posted is ridiculous, and the guy is overrated. All I did was what you are normally known for - called things as they are. If you have a problem with that, no problem. But please, your response "smacks" of a double-standard. You are better than that. Have a pleasant Sunday, my Britt friend.

[Liberty]

Who said anything about his fighting ability or lack of it? Did I go there even regarding the first clip I posted? As for his teaching eye-jabs, I highly favor their effectiveness. But to teach a child she can pull that off against someone she can't even reach, someone way stronger, faster, bent on doing her wrong, or she can take on, what was it 3 grown attackers, is ludicrous. He must not've been serious.

Then again, perhaps he was just humoring her; always a good thing to do when teaching someone how to effectively defend themselves, right?

That's Jun Fan, some technique beyond your level of effeciency? So much for the standard Jun Fan himself practiced - meeting students at their level of ability (building from there/on that).

"Hey Mr., could you reach down so I can gouge out your eye. I'm not allowed to cross the street yet so I can't just run away - and my "Jun Fan" master forgot to keep things simple and teach me to just slap you in the groin (something any child can do and hurts like hell!), scream at the top of my lungs, break normal convention and run like hell. Please, pretty please...with sugar on top..." What happend to what she needed given the range she was in/her level of skill - to ABD, and not SDA?

I remember when I was about 11 or 12. An uncle of mine, a muscular and arrogant type, came to visit us from out of town. Hearing I was into Bruce Lee, the idiot actually called me, a kid, out... Not letting up nor allow me to just leave the room... Finally, in what I now know as Attack By Drawing, I sat on the floor and egged him to come at me. When he finally did come at me at my level of efficiency I apllied a jujitsu leg trip I'd just read about in a book, had been practicing, and landed him on his butt with it. Boy was he livid!

Fortunately, right as I was rushing in to smack him in the nuts, my dad, his brother, showed up and put and end to his nonsense. Point? Hit smart, hit first, hit hard, hit fast, hit again, or run like hell. Not start off with what you can't even reach!

Bad enough this guy's Jun Fan is already watered down; necessitating some sort of blend from other arts not available to Lee back then - even though human beings still have only two arms and two legs (here we go with the great controversy once more).

Again, and judging from one or two clips watchedonce, but from 15 to 20 video clips - each 10 to 15 minutes in length, each capturing various contexts, each clip of which I minutely observed, he obviously has ability in his own execution (despite his watered down Jun Fan and what that necessitates).

Yes, his shoot is top knotch, no problem there. But his self-defence video clips are awful.

Here we go again, the young, inexperienced (in street self-defence - yeah, right) and ignorant of what Jun Fan himself uncovered versus the old, set in stone, experienced know it all.

I guess people like Taky Kimura and James Lee were just plain stupid to not consider the fact Jun Fan was 20 years younger then them. I am not Bruce Lee, but your humorous age statement is lame, Mike, lame, old, and preconcieved.

I guess, you've never experienced or perhaps have forgotten the simple, direct, non-classical effectiveness of a child's having - even innocently smacked you in the nuts (or poked you in the eye - only after having first successfully bridged their fighting measure, by the way, innocently, or not).

Come on Mike, let's go - bring it on, brother!

[Tant01]

My daughter is nine... She knows how to get to the eye gouge.

It's not unrealistic for the groin shot to bring the orbits into thumbs reach...

Any kid can reach the ground.

[Liberty]

There it is, my Jun Fan "jujitsu" leg trip at 6:10. Whoops, allowed myself to fall prey to the blend trap I'd once believed Lee remained in despite his own last words on the matter:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqU8VjNnEu4[/YOUTUBE]

Think I'll let this one rage a bit. See if the same old same old resurfaces (rather then fresh perspective). See you in a while. Enjoy the debate, people.

[Guest]

Okay, but you have gone there at times:



The Online Slang Dictionary | Definition of smack
smack (noun) offensive speech about another person.
"I hear you've been talking smack about me."

Unless you're calling someone what they were is somehow a right only you have. The self-defense video I posted is ridiculous, and the guy is overrated. All I did was what you are normally known for - called things as they are. If you have a problem with that, no problem. But please, your response "smacks" of a double-standard. You are better than that. Have a pleasant Sunday, my Britt friend.

Liberty, you're out of line.

I didn't post a video of Nassem Hamed and invite others to slander him. Someone posted a video of him and I offered my opinion, which I stand by. But yes, on that occassion I was critical of an individual, I will take that on the chin.

However, your snappy little response acussing my of being known on here for insulting people is untrue and completely unjust. I am blunt and honest, but about arts, concepts, practices and opinions. You stated yourself, in your own post only a few above the one I have quoted, that I don't resort to personal insults. Then you write this thread attacking me, just because you didn't like the fact that I wouldn't insult one of my seniors, you're being childish and petty.

I don't come on here with double standards in fact I hold a consistent point of view. I say things as I see them, and that is very very rarely at the expense of an individual. The fact that you went trawling through all of my posts and found one weak example is testament to that. The fact that you did that, and wrote your snide little remarks about me, also makes me dissapointed that I have continually tried to support you on here.

Don't try to make me look like a shit to make yourself feel better, like I said, find something more positive to contribute.

[Guest]

The shame of it is, I've always liked Lib. Even with his endless Bruce Lee vids and OJKD sing-a-longs, he brings a cool angle to some the debates here. Not sure what has gone on with this thread, it takes a lot to push my buttons, but I thought that post was out of line.

I've also just seen an "anonymous" neg rep against me for my original response to his video post of Yuri, thats a bit low. I was on 199 too!

[Liberty]

Liberty, you're out of line.

I didn't post a video of Nassem Hamed and invite others to slander him. Someone posted a video of him and I offered my opinion, which I stand by. But yes, on that occassion I was critical of an individual, I will take that on the chin.

However, your snappy little response acussing my of being known on here for insulting people is untrue and completely unjust. I am blunt and honest, but about arts, concepts, practices and opinions. You stated yourself, in your own post only a few above the one I have quoted, that I don't resort to personal insults. Then you write this thread attacking me, just because you didn't like the fact that I wouldn't insult one of my seniors, you're being childish and petty.

I don't come on here with double standards in fact I hold a consistent point of view. I say things as I see them, and that is very very rarely at the expense of an individual. The fact that you went trawling through all of my posts and found one weak example is testament to that. The fact that you did that, and wrote your snide little remarks about me, also makes me dissapointed that I have continually tried to support you on here.

Don't try to make me look like a shit to make yourself feel better, like I said, find something more positive to contribute.

What makes you say I went trolling through all your posts! The quote of yours was in response to my remarks on the Prince and was very recent (and therefore easliy remembered). I coupled that with other remarks I recllaed having seen you make. What the hell do you want smiley's all over the place to somehow back up the intent I've tried to communicate in my words to you. If you feel like a shit that is due to your interpretation. I have nothing but respect for you. So I called you on something even you, as respectful as you often are while at the same time maintaining your refreshing directness. What, you're perfect. As for Mike's two cents on the matter, he hasn't a clue. I'm here. And like you, I see no reason to continue something on and on and on. At a certain point I just bo out. That's all that is.

[Liberty]

My daughter is nine... She knows how to get to the eye gouge.

It's not unrealistic for the groin shot to bring the orbits into thumbs reach...

Any kid can reach the ground.

That was my point - teach the girl, in that situation "how to get to that eye gouge." In the scenario in the video the girl needed ABD (and or PIA), bring the guy to her level of ability (if running is not an option). What does she get instead - SDA/SAA? Do me a figure, ask your daughter about this. Show her the clip and ask her what she would do. Take her there. Unless you're a midget, she's going to find what you have said is as right as what I had observed - in that scenario, if running away screaming at the top of her lungs, 'Help, Police, pedophile!," is not an option, then "how to get to the eye-gouge," is crucial.