differences between shaolin and wing chun ?

[bodhisattva]

It's your truth perhaps, but it's an an opinion concerning MAs. Sorry you had such bad experiences but that does not mean all MAs are bad and MMA is the best.

Katas is practice-training and in my opion very valuable, but it does not equal fighting...it's not supposed to. There are SD Katas and Judo does have Katas. But I agree, if all your training are Kata with no application you will just master Kata.

The bigger point is none of this has anything to do with the thread. The poster asked about CMAs on a CMA forum and your response is basically like "traditional arts are all garbage MMA is the best" isn't this argument getting tired and old already. Hey you don't like Kata, angry about the poor instructors, you had it with traditional schools..fine but don't ridicule someone who enjoys wht they are doing...Paul-m like's CMAs let it go.

People can like Kata and CMA all they like. But if someone says "they help people learn to fight" I'm always going to stand up and say "No they don't."

If people don't like that, I totally understand.

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I hear witch doctors get really sick of western doctors jumping up and saying "A little adjustment to your diet and that gout would go away, I don't think those bird droppings are going to drive the evil spirit out of your leg.."

And if I hear a witch doctor say "Bird droppings will help gout more than changing your diet" I'm going to jump up and say "Nonsense."

I'll further let the witch doctors know that if they LIKE bird droppings, then go ahead and rub them on the leg - just don't tell others it cures Gout.

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It's kind of funny. If you tell a boxer boxing is no good for defense, he laughs about it, shrugs it off, and goes and works out. He doesn't need confirmation. He REALLY FIGHTS, and finds the confirmation in his fighting.

You tell a traditional martial artist Kata don't work for fight game improvement, and he throws a tantrum-crying-fit and whines about how all the MMA guys won't give him confirmation.

Why is that? Because the traditional martial artist has invested a great deal of time in his kata and his sensei's words or guro's teachings. And it's a lot easier to listen to sensei than to actually get punched in the face.

So when someone rips on kata, he throws a fit.

[bodhisattva]

You wouldn't happen to have a video of that, would you?

Sorry, Jubabji. Red Rum is a traditional martial artist who not only practices for fighting skill, but also for spiritual growth. So he could not allow someone to film his awesome martial conquests over wrestlers.

It's something a real fighter wouldn't understand.

[bodhisattva]

And I can find medical doctors that wear tinfoil hats to keep the satelites from reading their thoughts.

Craziness exists everywhere, Mike.

Honestly, I don't believe in Kata. I'll always respond that way. (shrug) If it hurts feelings, then I'm not sure what to say.

I did the kata, the kata sucked for fighting. I did the forms and the Hyueng and I found them pretty silly movements that have little to do wtih real fighting.

Most kata are full of "blocking" and throwing punches from the hip. How on EARTH will that help anyone fight. "blocking" is a ridiculous, inefficient, ineffective way to deal with someone's punches. It's just silly.

You guys find your "kata grandmaster" and let me put him up against any boxer or wrestlers of even decent ranking in their sport. Honestly.

The guy practicing his movements in the air, without an opponent, is going to have a bloody face - and will need revived with smelling salts.

[bodhisattva]

It's weird how you guys require confirmation from someone else that Kata work - and that you get so worked up when other peole won't join in the mantra with you.

They are silly wastes of time. If you want to tell me I'm wrong, that's fine with me.

You won't see me whining saying "Why don't you guys just stop telling me I'm wrong!" and getting all emotional. Because I've spent the time and the experience and (sadly, the money) on that crap. I didn't learn to fight until I started wrestling and boxing. You post what you like. I'll post what I like.

Since my experience is what it is - my experience - Then that's what I'll post.

This is a martial arts forum, right? I didn't wander into a knitting forum or something, did I? I mean, the point of this forum is that we express our personal opinion, drawn from personal experience - not someone else's?

Well, I'll go on doing that, then.

[bodhisattva]

[QUOTE=Mike Brewer;288724]
Why, then, do you have such a hard time admitting that the only thing you learned from the waste of time spent in TMAs was that it was a waste of time for you?

[QUOTE]

Because fighting happens within the physics of the universe. And physics doesn't adjust for peole based on "their temperment" or "their style."

Physics stays the same for both parties.

Boxing/Wrestling/MMA - These arts make maximum efficiency of their movements within physics and within fighting.

Physics "is" what Physics "Is."

Dorsey can waste all the time he wants on Kata. He'd be a better fighter if he spent that time sleeping and recovering from a boxing/wrestling workout.

[Red Rum]

Kata, forms, patterns are all extremely handy training tools

Practically it is unwise to use them in confrontations, but as a training tool they help you to remember techniques, practice techniques whilst getting good exercise and give you something to do if you have no-one to train with

No-one laughs at shadow boxing and yet it is fundamentally the same type pf training

Bodi..... you have to remember that unless you actually get out to other countries, other states and other arts, you will always be limited as a martial artist

A lot of arts mix techniques over (ie BJJ uses a lot of 'sticking' principle, similar to wing chun) and it is very closed minded of any martial artist to dismiss one art or one training practice

I always look at martial arts this way -
What are they trying to teach me? Is it achieving that goal?

If a wing chun school claims to teach you street fighting technique then they should do just that. If the moves don't work then yeah, leave. But don't let your opinion of the whole art be based on that one experience

In Kamon, we have experienced boxers, grapplers, kickboxers, karate guys training under us all the time
I have been told by Kevin Chan that they will be creating a web page full of black belts from other styles who train with us
It might give you some idea that not all wing chun sucks and you should go try some other schools
Kamon is defiantely not the only wing chun school to attract talented martial artists from other styles

As for forms - as long as your instructor gives you a clear understanding of why you are training various forms then there shouldn't be a problem

Good luck to you all
Peace out