taiji in fight

[kingoftheforest]

That's what I thought. Needless complication of a naturally simple event. It's always been a bad idea, whether draped in culture or not.

In my humble (alright, hostile and arrogant) opinion, anything that you can train for seventy years whith wholehearted dedication and still not be able to pull off is a waste of a lifetime. A whole entire life pissed away.

Well the answer to that is when you throw that much stuff at a persons central nervous system they can only react to so much.

Therefore they may block one section of the attack and be taken out by the second section thus not allowing for the complete technique to be used. The opponent may move forward into the attack and be taken down at a closer range than anticipated thus eliminating the need for a kick that goes into the technique.

The idea of techniques like these are to cover as much of your range as possible with one unified movement of the body. It works as offense and defense simultaneously, it's part of the efficiency in motion that the classics of Tai Chi try to convey.

[kingoftheforest]

I get what you mean, KOTF. My Dad was actually brought up in several Chinese styles, and while I did learn some of the material from them by default when I was younger, it's not a philosophy I really took to. Too much of the esoteric and too little focus on the purely pragmatic.

By way of analogy, it's like saying that a jiujitsu man views his "technique" as the takedown to establishing a good side control position and then securing an Americana or some such. To the traditional Chinese way of thinking, that whole series is the "technique." If he did it with a different takedown, but had the same flow of events thereafter, it would be a different technique. Or a boxer slipping a jab, weaving under a cross, and hooking to the body and then the head. The whole series is the "technique" in Chinese minds, whereas a Westerner sees the slip, the weave, the body hok, and the high hook as independent pieces. In other words, we see the tool as an independent thing. The Chinese traditionalist sees the set up, the initiation, the follow-up, and the counter all as one piece of the whole, even if that means there are ten movements involved.

Here's the thing, though. I started martial arts so I could learn to fight. Plain and simple - no higher or more noble purpose. I didn't want to have to take shit from people, so I learned how to fight. The simple fact is, I "got there" many years ago. I've been able to fight well enough to cover my own needs for a long time. So it seems stupid to me to get wrapped up in the technical this-and-that of a bunch of stuff that doesn't relate to my own purpose. To me, it's like building a house. You build it, and it's done. All you have to worry about is maintaining it or adding on here or there as situations change. But you don't have to keep ripping it down and rebuilding all your life. Move your shit in and live there. Spend your time on other things.

If I spent all my time on martial arts, all I'd be is a martial artist. How boring!

Well in that's the philosophy you have grown for yourself by all means follow what you feel is good for you.

Personally I prefer to find the flaws in what I'm doing and build it again without those flaws. I may never finish but it's what I have a passion for.

[kingoftheforest]

Usually when you have to change something in a structure all the parts that work fine may need to be relocated when you rebuild. they're all there just in a different spot.


The internal combustion engine has some parts on it that were around when Ford's model T was the hot car to have, they've just been modified to fit in with the upgraded system.

This is a philosophical point that were discussing here. In terms of classic martial arts anything that grows stagnant and doesn't change is considered dead. Change is needed for growth on that line of thinking.

If you feel you've reached a point where change is not necessary then I say kudos to you.


My philosophy is to continue to change. grow and evolve. Much like the rest of the world.

Martial arts isn't just a hobby for me. It's a way of life.

Thanks for the conversation. I'll see you guys in another thread.

KOTF

[kanik]

What I'm trying to say, KOTF, is that martial arts can be useful in the extreme. It can and does teach amazing things about areas beyond fighting. But if it is your entire identity, then you're living a sham. If you're a martial artist first, foremost, and above all else - if martial arts is "your way of life," well then where does that leave all the things that aren't "martial arts?" If martial arts - human combat and the methods thereof - is the lens through which you view life and the world around you, what kind of future does that leave in store for you? I mean, you said it, my friend: We create our own suffering (or, Life is Dukha). What sort of peace and resolution can you expect in life if your "way of living it" is the steady and constant pursuit of all things related to conflict and combat?

What about all the parts of life that are not related to fighting at all?

Martial arts are a way of life, depending on the art, it is. ANd they do teach you amazing things beyond fighting, so long as you dont close your eyes to those amazing things. There is a lot more to martial arts than fighting. There is a lot more to everything then purely what you can see. Even cooking can be a way of life, gardening anything. Its the life you choose to lead, and what skill you choose to try and perfect that will make you who you are. So saying martiala rts cant be a way of life, is stupid.

[kanik]

I didn't say it can't be. Speaking of opening your eyes to possibilities - try opening them to reading comprehension.

What I said was, given the choice between choosing to make martial art my way of life, or choosing to make my wife and son - my role as a provider to them, my civic responsibility, etc. my way of life, the choice is easy.

I don't need to be a wandering monk or the world's greatest fighter. I want to be capable, and I am. Knowing I've got that taken care of frees me up to devote myself to things I feel are more important - like my son and my wife. I didn't say it was wrong for anyone. In fact, I've always said quite the opposite. Whatever your reasons are for training, they're good reasons. The point I was trying to get across was that many people start with one thing in mind (being a good fighter, for example) and they end up someplace totally different, such as wanting to be an instructor or wanting to collect techniques from all over the place.

When people allow themselves to believe that the destination doesn't matter, they also condition themselves never to achieve anything or get anywhere.

Dude. See? you still dont understand. Martial arts helps every aspect of life. A way of life and what you live for. Simple. Your oppinion is yours, mine is mine. So I'm gonna leave it at that. Besides, my comprehension kicks ass!

[kanik]

By the way...

See what I mean, Tant01? KOTF didn't even have time to go for it. Kanik beat him to the punch, but in no less spectacularly predictable a manner.

Hold on to the PM. Let's see how many I get.

There aint nothing wrong with oppinions, the only time somthing is wrong is when people undermine a valid oppinion. For me martial arts are a way of life, and they are my way. Obviously for you they arent, for you they are a hobby, or an interest. Which is ok, coz thats what you want out of them.

[kingoftheforest]

Everybody's opinion is right for them.

This is the kind of roboticism I'm talking about. That statement is so cliche that it's painful.

You know what my way of life is?

It's being a good father.

It's being a good husband.

It's being a dependable provider.

It's being a solid citizen and patriot.

It's being an involved member of my community.

What I'm trying to say, KOTF, is that martial arts can be useful in the extreme. It can and does teach amazing things about areas beyond fighting. But if it is your entire identity, then you're living a sham. If you're a martial artist first, foremost, and above all else - if martial arts is "your way of life," well then where does that leave all the things that aren't "martial arts?" If martial arts - human combat and the methods thereof - is the lens through which you view life and the world around you, what kind of future does that leave in store for you? I mean, you said it, my friend: We create our own suffering (or, Life is Dukha). What sort of peace and resolution can you expect in life if your "way of living it" is the steady and constant pursuit of all things related to conflict and combat?

What about all the parts of life that are not related to fighting at all?

This is your opinion and you are more than entitled to it. Mine differs and I've explained it. Your opinion of what I think is that my life is a sham. I appreciate that you would take such a large interest in my life but I feel I'm doing just fine the way I am.

While I am first and foremost a martial artist it doesn't stop me from being all the things you've mentioned in your opinion. While some people may value a higher paycheck or better lawn than their neighbors I don't need material things and money to feel better about who I am.

I don't need respect from everyone who hears me talk or reads what I write. I don't need followers and I don't need to be a wandering monk to continue to be a martial artist.

I'm not KOTF the martial artist I'm just KOTF. I happen to live The Martial Way or at least try to in everything I do. In my job, in my marriage, raising my child. This isn't just beating and killing people. There is a certain amount of responsibility that comes with learning martial arts but that's a whole 'nother subject that's been discussed to death on forums and in books.

Does this mean that all other ways are wrong? No it's the one I personally chose myself. There are many ways to go about living in this world. I won't belittle other people's way just because it isn't mine.

You can learn maturity, discipline and understanding through other means. My way just happen to work out through martial arts. Some people do it through higher education. Some people do it through helping others in various forms. Some people do it through religion.

This doesn't make them cubby holed into one thing like, So and So the learner or So and So the religious guy, unless you go through life stereo typing people.

Stereo typing people is also a way for some unfortunately. It is a way that leads to prejudice and headlong conclusion on how people think and act. Another word for it is bigotry. It's all too sad that there are people in this world who still live their lives by this way.


You're entitled to your opinion that you can learn something in such a total way in less than half a lifetime. My opinion is that it takes a while longer to master any subject no matter what it is. I chose to make mine martial arts, and I doubt that even a life time is enough to master anything but a video game.

Good luck on your travel maybe one day your opinion will change but it's not up to me to try and change it for you.

And that's 'bout all I have to say on this subject.

Later

KOTF