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It seems you will take the word of other people and watch videos and use all those Baguazhang skills that you have honed over the years and be critical.
It seems you will take the word of other people and watch videos and use all those Baguazhang skills that you have honed over the years and be critical.
Ok.
Good luck with your training gentlemen.
ACTUALLY...
I was hoping to read BOTH sides of the issue about the gentleman?
You would seem to have some personal insights as well as professional experience with the style AND the MAN himself?
Frankly I'm dissapointed with your ease of leaving the thread hanging.
From KOTF: I've seen the videos on Painter stumbling while doing demo forms. I have seen a competition video of Painter also. Wasn't good. He seemed to be off balance the whole time.
And your background in Baguazhang is?? And your skills are so well tuned that you can spot all that from videos. Sir, you insult me and others who have a brain.
He makes his students bow and he does "Chi knockouts" And you know this as you were once a student or have direct knowledge again gleamed from personal experience? We do not bow but use the universal sign of respect used in Chinese martial arts. Dr. Painter does not do Qi knockouts but neurological disruptions/overload.
He has an honorary doctorate and his lineage is possibly a fraud.Again and you know this how?
I have instructors who have crossed hands with him and they have told me all I need to know. There is too much skepticism in the MA world about him. Ahh, you have NEVER met the man and yet you have the experience from others to be critical. That is hearsay. Not really a good way to gather firsthand experience.
I openly invite you and anyone else from this board whenever you are in Boston to come visit and see myself and my students. I will cross hands with you, or whatever you would like to see. There is a lot of crap out there about me as well, but again it is mostly posted by similar internet cowards who mouth off but really can never back it up. And yes this is directed at any and all people who claim to be martial artists here and on any other board.
I teach Satudays at:
Omedicine
19 Belmont St
Cambridge, MA
02138
I also teach in Hingham, MA at:
20 Pond Park Road
Hingham, MA
02043
You can call me at 617-595-8097 anytime you are in town and I will gladly meet up. I am always up to meet people. I look forward to any and all showing up.
He has an honorary doctorate and his lineage is possibly a fraud.Again and you know this how?
According to Bif (Painters middle name and the one he used to use) himself
"I studied Naturopathy and earned my Ph.D. based on a focus of Chinese medicine most notably Acupuncture. Like it or not the diploma hangs on my wall and I have a legitimate right to use the prefix of Dr. or suffix of Ph.D. on my name."
That odd since Acupuncturist are D.O.M.s (Doctor of Oriental Medicine) NOT PHD's.
I openly invite you and anyone else from this board whenever you are in Boston to come visit and see myself and my students. I will cross hands with you, or whatever you would like to see. There is a lot of crap out there about me as well, but again it is mostly posted by similar internet cowards who mouth off but really can never back it up. And yes this is directed at any and all people who claim to be martial artists here and on any other board.
Thanks for the invite but I traveled a great distance to meet and train with Painter when he was passing himself off as a Ranger and calling himself Captain John Painter and I wasn't impressed with his skills then so I can't see how traveling to a student of his is going to accomplish anything aside from waste more of my time and money.
Okay, so tell me guys, which CMA bashers am I supposed to ban?
the one that says to stop talking smack about his instructor in a fairly polite and professional way
or the one that makes fun of the practices of the other group, to include their uniforms and such?
you all did askfor more oversight of the CMA boards
Pointing out well documented fraudulent claims of someone I spent money to train under is different than running around making homosexual accusations. No one is bashing CMA's we're simply pointing out that, CAPT, DR, PHD, Texas Ranger, John Painter who was taught by the student of a man born in 1677 is a bit much to swallow, the vids and pictures I posted of him show his BS uniforms and use of Chi to move people. No one has said anything about Painter that isn't public record, I also made the trip to meet Capt, DR, etc Painter, Jubaji has never met a single instructor or student of our school but has over thousand posts calling us fags and frauds that's quite a different situation.
TTExcrement is in full-on duck mode now! Wow, I like this new fella! Just as well for TTExcrement anyway. I know Quincy, and a theory-boy like him wouldn't make it out of the neighborhood even if he did visit.
relax i'm messing with you guys, but do try to be respectful of each other.
Honestly I probably couldn't tell the difference between a good CMA guy and a Bad CMA guy. Most of the video's i've seen even those posted by boar looked silly to me. I even told him so. LOL
Those were Videos Boar posted of GM Doo Wai and Master Vince Peppers of the White Tiger association as I recall, LOL. Those were an inside joke that disproved claims made by GM Doo Wai in an extremely hostile/violent lineage war
Jubaji has never met a single instructor or student of our school but has over thousand posts calling us fags and frauds that's quite a different situation.
From looking up Vince peppers i've only found a few things
apparently he is associated with another guy Lacey who is his good friend. Some say that Lacey is a white supremacist and hates the Doo Wai guy. And that the group is a splinter group and a bit off.
I tend to mistrust just about everyone who brings up the word lineage in a conversation about Martial Arts.
Embellishment is a very common cultural trait in Asian cultures, add with that the saving face, and you end up with westerners running around proclaiming truths that under normal circumstances they wouldn't believe.
The short version is Doo Wai charges upwards of a thousand bucks for a dvd that will simply have him doing the form on it without any explanation, Lacy sells the same form broken down with application for 40 bucks. Doo Wai decided to claim he had never taught Lacy, the vids Boar posted showed Doo Wai teaching Vince and Lacy, disproving Doo Wai's claims he never taught them White Tiger. Then Doo Wai claimed he didn't teach the Dummy form either so Boar posted the vids of him teaching the dummy form. As for lineage it's icing on the cake, if you can walk the walk then lineage is worthwhile so you can trace the forms and their known applications and sets. On the other hand when someone claims a lineage and doesn't know the name the students call him or anything about the curriculum he teaches you know you're dealing with a fraud.
Boar has numerous extremely well known Martial artists who vouch for his credentials and abilities and he uses his lineage to trace people who taught the people who taught his teachers to further his own understanding of his family system. He has an extensive library allowing him to trace nearly every known system of Baqua all the way back to Pa Pan Chang style, without lineages those types of study would be impossible.
I pretty much only worry about effectiveness now a days, lineage means nothing to me.
The proof is the application of the Martial arts no doubt about it, however if you spend 40 yrs learning a system you've earned the right to point out people lying about the style and giving out bad information that damages the understanding and reputation of the art. That's why SF people go out of their way to expose frauds and the Stolen Valor Act was instituted because posers in the martial arts/Military can get people killed. Security is a huge industry now and people claiming whacked out lineages like Captain in the Rangers or claiming to be a Dr, who get jobs training security in nuclear power plants and the aviation industry or LEO's can get thousands of people killed. Often you can use lineage to show the person is lying and that makes them a poor choice to entrust with security. There have been several people who performed operations or practiced law and faked their way through it until the paper trail (lineage) brought them down. Since you can't challenge every teacher to a fight lineage can be a useful tool to weed out those who studied one art and change the sign out front whenever a new style comes into vogue. Too many people with a barely acceptable resume in Japanese arts have jumped into teaching the CMA's after watching a video the same way MMA schools are now popping up everywhere after the Karate instructor watched a few UFC's. Lineage just identifies what the person SHOULD know, it doesn't measure what they can actually do, it's just another measuring stick of how much BS is being slung.
I can usually tell by watching someone for a little bit if they have something that interests me, I don't care where they came by it, or if they are making it up as they go. If I find it useful is all that matters to me.
Let the old guys and women argue about who has the right to do what or the right name behind them.
The old guys and women and developmentally stunted geeks who feel the need to try and fabricate a false sense of self importance by obsessing over things like 'lineage' as if it's all some kind of Dungeons and Dragons type game they can 'win' by accumulating the most 'points,' intead of just working hard and building real skills in the real world and not some fantasy land where memorizing lineage charts and books they don't really understand will somehow save their ass if push comes to shove.
And your background in Baguazhang is?? And your skills are so well tuned that you can spot all that from videos. Sir, you insult me and others who have a brain.
My background would be that I learned from someone who trained with Shi Pe Shi, who trained with Sun Lu Tang, who trained with Dong Hai Chuan, who was the originator of Bagua.
Not a 300 year old master who gave me a set of knives I could buy from American Cutlery, which Painter has claimed.
Tim Cartnel trained with Shi Pe Shi as well. Shi is or was since he has passed, the lineage holder for Bagua and he never taught Chi disruptions or "neurological" gimmicks. Shi used good ole ass whipping techniques.
As for watching a video and telling someone can or can't do something. Last time I checked tripping over your own feet or busting your ass wasn't part of any Bagua form. That's a dead give away that you don't practice a real CMA. Or an MA period.
Ahh, you have NEVER met the man and yet you have the experience from others to be critical. That is hearsay. Not really a good way to gather firsthand experience.
You've never met me yet you already know I have no idea what I'm talking about? How easily when we point out other people's mistakes we make the same one ourselves. People from this forum and other internet forums have come and trained with me. Just because I don't have a banner add or an article in Kung Fu magazine doesn't mean I have no idea what I'm doing. My instructors and the people who are associate instructors are in it for the art not for the pay check.
I've never trained with George Dillman and I can tell you he's a fraud with his no touch K.O.'s.
We train out of my home so I don't advertise my name on here. I don't need a line of idiots tramping up to my front step. Even the military Net forums say it's a ridiculous idea to put you real name in places like this. Personal security comes first for me and my family.
[/B]There is a lot of crap out there about me as well, but again it is mostly posted by similar internet cowards who mouth off but really can never back it up. And yes this is directed at any and all people who claim to be martial artists here and on any other board. [/B]
You must spend a lot of time watching boards. When do you have time for personal training? And name calling, is that part of the curriculum as well?
So far all you have done is said that I was a coward and had no idea what I was talking about. You have yet to show any evidence to prove that John Painter has a lineage, and he seemed to be pretty obsessed with making sure people knew he had one. Tim Cartnel proved he was lying. He claimed to be an Army Ranger and it's documented he got his ass in a bind on that one because he was lying.
He claims to have a PhD in a medical system that doesn't hand them out you can't explain that away either.
I was posting an opinion it's been backed up with links videos and facts by myself and an instructor from the school I work in. Where is your proof that John Painter's lineage, PhD. , or abilities are real. I have been civil to you throughout this conversation while you have insulted my personal experience, intelligence, and abilities and have not offered one shread of proof that John Painter is what he says he is.
I don't need to protect my name or skills because I could care less if another person ever trains with me. I'm in this to learn the art not to protect a rice bowl. Insult me all you want but the proof is in the pudding. We don't have someone watching all the boards running damage control for our school because people will say what they want. Hell this board and the little quips in this thread alone are proof enough that there are jerks everywhere.
Difference is I don't have experts of the CMA world deriding the people I train with publicly as frauds. The only people who do that reside souly on this forum.
Ok... somone may have allready done this, but I'm gonna do it anyway. Note I didnt read everything coz I'm morbidly obese and lazy. Anywho. Taiji-quan and Bhaguazhang. Stating that Bagua is More complex then Tai chi is rather silly. Bagua is slightly more specified than Tai chi, but I wouldnt call tai chi simple in any way. Both are great styles, and I am currently Practicing tai chi, and will move onto Bagua when I have my basics down along with the first form I am learning. Heres the thing with what I see and what others have also told me, tai chi helps you learn bagua, but learning bagua doesnt help that much with tai chi.
Ok... somone may have allready done this, but I'm gonna do it anyway. Note I didnt read everything coz I'm morbidly obese and lazy. Anywho. Taiji-quan and Bhaguazhang. Stating that Bagua is More complex then Tai chi is rather silly. Bagua is slightly more specified than Tai chi, but I wouldnt call tai chi simple in any way.
Baqua IS more complicated to grasp than Tai Chi, if you haven't studied Baqua yet you probably wouldn't realize it though. Neither one is simple by any means nor is one better than the other. Baqua has more forms, more weapons and is much more demanding physically than Tai Chi.
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