Lets divide the real CMA from the Fakes

[jubaji]

Its never been clear .

That is obviously your answer to almost all questions.

[TigerClaw]

I've thrown the gauntlet many times to test my hands against yours, but you always say it goes against your beliefs. Is it because you can't prove what you claim? Or something else?

Yes, you are a scrapper it seems, and as I had said before that is not a good martial artist in my mind. If you pursue that path you will always meet someone who is far better than you and you will make the mistake of underestimating them.

You seem to "throw in the gauntlet" when you run out of argument. By the way , don't you live in China. There must be some good Kung Fu schools you could visit over there. You might even find some that have very effective answers against grapplers.

You seem to have the entire wrong understanding of what I have been saying and about me. I have told you before I do not seek to fight any man, I am not in the afraid of you in the least or others. My attitude has always been to deal with people patiently and to answer objections, rebuke when needed etc. I have told you over and over that I don't care if you believe me. Don't get yourself in such a frenzy, if you don't believe me then go away and fight with your snake style friends.

By the way tell me more about them.

[Ben Grimm]

Either that or you can't prove what you are saying and other closely related crap.

[Ben Grimm]

I cross hands with many stylists and I always try to take something away from everybody. Whether it's Hung Ga, WC, Southern Praying Mantis, Baji, Taijiquan, Contemporary Wushu. I know I'm not a master, of those styles, and I teach Wing Chun as an assistant. But I know what I'm talking about and I'm not afraid to get my ass kicked because I'll learn something from it. You on the other hand, at least from my own observations can't handle that. Typical LARPer attitude to me.

[TigerClaw]

I cross hands with many stylists and I always try to take something away from everybody. Whether it's Hung Ga, WC, Southern Praying Mantis, Baji, Taijiquan, Contemporary Wushu. I know I'm not a master, of those styles, and I teach Wing Chun as an assistant. But I know what I'm talking about and I'm not afraid to get my ass kicked because I'll learn something from it. You on the other hand, at least from my own observations can't handle that. Typical LARPer attitude to me.

All your provoking doesn't work on me. Like I said, you really don't know me.

"A man is holding a sharp dagger and he is dripping with blood, his facial expression is furious and he is cut all over. What kind of man is this? Some would say he is a maniac, killer, crazy person. But now lets enlarge the picture, we see his wife and kids behind him and a tiger in front of him. Now what kind of man is he?"

By the way, sometime getting your a** kicked can leave you with less vision than before you fought.

[Ben Grimm]

You used the same example on DL. Maybe that's why you never test anything, because you know after an ass-whooping you would go into despair. However an ass kicking for me allows to re-evaluate and learn and develop my strengths and weakness. This allows me to become a better FIGHTER!

[Tant01]

There's something...

You used the same example on DL. Maybe that's why you never test anything, because you know after an ass-whooping you would go into despair. However an ass kicking for me allows to re-evaluate and learn and develop my strengths and weakness. This allows me to become a better FIGHTER!

Remind me to + rep your previous post too...

I've learned much by trial... and error. Trust me when I say you won't stay pretty for long playing that game.

Especially if you play with those "ugly" sticks or knives... got scars?

[Tant01]

Black eye?

All your provoking doesn't work on me. Like I said, you really don't know me.



By the way, sometime getting your a** kicked can leave you with less vision than before you fought.

Is this some inuendo about getting your eye scooped out by a kung-fu man?

[Ben Grimm]

I've got a few. I'm not a pretty boy so I'm not worried about my looks. My wife doesn't seem to mind and my daughter is too small to understand. Had fractures and broken bones as well. But if you can't take it in sparring then you can't take it in a real fight. That's how I see it anyway.

[TigerClaw]

I've thrown the gauntlet many times to test my hands against yours, ...

You remind me of one of those villans in the old kung fu movies, who go around challenging other instructors.

[TigerClaw]

You claim to be a teacher of CMA...

Yes I am,

here is a logo from an old school I attended

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo119/HungFighter/GetAttachmentaspx.jpg

and here is a recent flyer for our club

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo119/HungFighter/GetAttachment-1aspx.jpg

[clfsean]

I understand it, I just don't speak chinese, and I have no desire to learn how to speak Chinese and know all the terms fully to be able to teach what i know. It is not half baked knowledge. My form movement is good and shows clearly the intent and strength of the forms.

Neih sihk ng sihk teng ah?

It would create confusion, especially for those who know nothing of the language and for beginners who come in. I don't need to teach them Chinese to understand how to move and what they are doing in the forms. You should know this, as you profess to be in martial arts for so long (or as far as I know only CLF, but you may have some other experience).

How could it confuse them if they're taught properly & learn the proper names & meanings of the techniques as the learn the technique?

I am not making up stories. I tell you true things, you argue, plain and simple. What i show about ground fighting is so very basic to combat, that I have to admit I wonder what you really know about martial arts. The many things I pointed out about survival combat and ground fighting etc, are very obvious and simple and the experts agree. The DANGER is when men try to say that what i showed won't work. I fear for the people who are just getting into martial arts and go by some of the peoples advice in here and yours also, if you do not agree with me about some very basic grappling escapes. Just because you may not have thought about the things I showed and discussed does not mean they aren't very effective and right in combat. By the way I have studied alot more than CLF and Hung Gar, Shaolin, etc

Like taking on gangs & stopping knife fights or whatever else you "experienced" with no legal ramifications or record. Even in Canada, they keep records of public disturbances. So if you're a good law abiding God fearing kind of man, I'm sure you're the type that would've called the RCMP & had reports filed, charges filed against the vile thug that accosted you or other meek innocents on the street that you swooped in saved. That would be correct thing today right? I mean otherwise you're just another street tough yourself with no regard for the law & humanity. Would that be an accurate statement?

Its always been out there, you just misinterpreted me. I have never said I was the best CLF teacher, . Because that is not all I teach. But the reality of my CLF lineage is true and you just won't let it go. What you do now,attack my ability as a CLF teacher. Although you don't know how i show the techniques and teach the applications etc. Instead all you do is throw all the chinese terms at me. My Sifu does speak all these terms and he often says the chines name for the movement. But truthfully, that was not the most important thing to me. How the technique is done and applied is more important to me. Proper stances and waist movement and hand positioning etc etc etc. That is important. And at those things I excell.

So show us... simple. If you excel as you claim to, one would think that you'd be dying to get video out there to show the rest of us how to do it with excellence...

Shows how little you understand what I was getting at. i was speaking hypothetically. I was showing you what your argument looks like from another perspective. I was not saying that any high master speaks like this.

You said it. Sarcasm doesn't translate the to the keyboard bub.

I have not insulted my master or his teachers. If I have insulted you, it is only a response to your attacks and wrong, shortsighted, unwise, assumptions and criticism. Respect is not given when people attack the way you do. You are not a senior to me. Except perhaps in age.

Actually you did. You insulted Poon Sing's performance on video from Youtube. He's a CLF elder...

BTW... you are my junior in MA bub... not to mention maturity, grasp of reality, etc...

No, I am qualified to teach everything I have learned. It depends on your understanding of qualifications. I have been a teacher and senior in other clubs, and I have had my Sifus speak well of me and my ability. Like I said I have been teaching for a while and i am aware of what works and doesn't.

Right... but you can't explain a basic technique. You're great with the hypothetical stuff since it doesn't have to be applied, just talk about for "What If..." or "When he does that, a Kung Fu Man would..."

What stories? And what boundries?

Go back & read your posts...

Well you are wrong. I Do have Sifus that taught me traditional kung Fu and I do have a CLF Sifu.

Really... who is he?

What stories. The stories about my life are true, the attacks i have had etc all are true. What stories are you refering to exactly? Just because you may not believe m does not make them false. I know what i have seen and done, it doesn't matter if you say they are incredible. I haven't even told you some of the more fantastic stories.

The more fantastic a thing, the more doubt it shows word by word.

What are you talking about? I posted the applications in a couple of slow videos, where I slowed the speed down to about 30 percent of actual speed.

and...

I do not have to learn the language of the many traditional forms I have know. But I find it interesting to know some of the names of movements in the Hung Forms, for other reasons. I am always learning for personal reasons. but this has nothing to do with how i teach Hung Gar forms. A person can know the name of a form like Two tigers hide their trails", but if he doesn't know what it is doing and how to move right in that position, then the meanings are useless. the meaning is not what makes the technique known. I posted the names for you and others for different reasons than you imply.

*oiy*

I have given proof. For me to retract things and say that I have no master who taught Hung Gar, Northern Shaolin , White Crane, would be a lie. For me to say I have no CLF master who's father was taught by the same Sifus as Doc Fai Wong, would be a lie. For me to deny that I am a Kung Fu teacher and that I have not been teaching for many years, would be a lie. For me to deny that I learned from many other teachers would be a lie. For me to say that I have not understood ground fighting and how to escape quickly would be a lie. For me to say that any story I have told from my life experience is not true, would be a lie. How can I go against the very things that I am and that I know to be true? What kind of ridiculous demand are you trying to put on me?

Ok... what teachers did he share with DFW?

I have given other proof, but it is not enough for you. And I told you I will not give the name of my Sifu in CLF, so you may as well give up on that one. And I really don't care if you don't believe anything I say. That is your error not mine. I try to share some things with you, just for the interest of discussion and to expose your error to all here, but other things I have no interest in doing. And I am not a puppet to be pulled about to do this and that and then answer this and that etc.

You don't share... you pontificate from a soap box yelling louder & louder when somebody calls BS. You dismiss any dispersion on your proofless stories by calling the people (like me) liars, mean spirited, wrong thinking, etc... honestly... you like a Scientologist.

When you throw the stories & claims around like you do, then proof is on you to provide the evidence to support them. Not the other way around.

[sunwukung]

In an (quite possibly futile) attempt to drag this thread away from derision and lineage challenges, let's look at this question from another perspective:

KFM - you say that Kung Fu has tactics to deal with grappling. That in itself is not in question*, although since the majority of KF styles (like boxing) are 'stand up' styles - the value of those solutions is in question and relatively untested.

Could it be argued then, that grapplers have equivalent solutions to deal with Kung Fu practitioners and their suite of groin kicks/eye gouge techniques?

*What is perhaps in question is your ability to do the things you say you can in real life combat survival situations - and the logic of relying on a range of skills that you refuse to use (and therefore test) outside of a life or death situation.

[TigerClaw]

In an (quite possibly futile) attempt to drag this thread away from derision and lineage challenges, let's look at this question from another perspective:

KFM - you say that Kung Fu has tactics to deal with grappling. That in itself is not in question*, although since the majority of KF styles (like boxing) are 'stand up' styles - the value of those solutions is in question and relatively untested.

Could it be argued then, that grapplers have equivalent solutions to deal with Kung Fu practitioners and their suite of groin kicks/eye gouge techniques?

*What is perhaps in question is your ability to do the things you say you can in real life combat survival situations - and the logic of relying on a range of skills that you refuse to use (and therefore test) outside of a life or death situation.

I am sure that other styles like jujitsu etc have solutions to many attacks from a standup position. But, as far as knowing the many kung fu attacks and variations of movements, I am sure that many other styles do not have full understanding of these. Part of the ability to overcome another attacker in combat is the ability of surprise as well. If a jujitsu man was used to fighting a certain way for years and he never saw much more than your typical kick boxing attacks. Then many of the Kung Fu attacks and defenses would be foreign to him. This element of surprise is also imortant in combat.

For example, the time one of my masters fought a Black belt Tae Kwon Do student in our club. The Black belt most likely had never seen the Praying mantist style my master did, and he was easily overcome. This can be the same for Jujitsu and other grapplers. But , again everything depends on the man and his ability, if the kung fu man does not know his techniques that well and the jujitsu man knows his techniques well, the jujitsu man will most likely fair well.

Like I said before, have you ever in all the history of MMA fights seen a man take a low unicorn stance with a snake or mantis guard. This would be unusual to the fighters and the unorthadox fighting pattern would surprise the other fighter. This is what I saw Happen with Gracie. He used a specific style that some had not really understood, and he dominated the arena. Because others were like bralwers and wrestlers and some kick boxing Muay tai etc. The same would most likely be true of real kung fu in stances etc. Except I already mentioned reasons why many Kung Fu men would not want to enter such arenas. Even if a fight did happen this way, eventually men would start to study Kung Fu as they did jujitsu and soon the surprise element would be lost. They would start to learn how to defend and attack a praying mantis fighter or snake stylist or tiger stylist etc. This also happened somewhat with the jujitsu fighters.

But as far as the ground fighting and grappling. Kung Fu has many surprises here. It would be a very different kind of fighting. But soon the techniques would be learned and men would figure out different strategies to combat.

Also, within many stand up techniques the same principles can be applied on the ground in many cases. For example, when a person strikes a Praying mantis stylist, there are a vast amount of techniques used to catch, trap, lock, deflect etc., the incoming strikes and to shift balance etc. Now lets say the Praying mantis fighter is on the ground mounted and the opponent is striking his face, many of the same techniques that work while standing up can work on the ground, . The Praying mantis fighter has to learn how to shift his body weight and look at his ground position as a stance type of position, using his hips and legs right. I have tested this to some degree and these things work well. Again, I also have learned some jujitsu techniques that I incorporate as well at times., usually for weigh distribution. But the many kung fu techniques that exist in close quarters can be applied on the ground. I have not heard many even speak of this kind of thing.

There are also many Chin Na techniques that work great on the ground, or standing. One thing also that I don't se in many MMA fights is finger breaking. Is that allowed? If not then the whole fight would change there as well. I have seen men with their fingers all over mens faces and I have seen men grabbing the opponents wrist and his fingers are in an open hand position. To someone who practices Chin Na, and other joint locking techniques that is a key attack.

As far as real life combat situations. There are some things I never want to see, like driving the fingers deep into the eye sockets or, tearing the eye lid right across from a rear grabbing position. I don't have to see this to know it is a life saving technique. just like I also teach knife defense, but I do not want to put my students in a real life and death knife defensive situation to know that the techniques work. We can use rubber knives and if we want to get creative we can have the fast attacks done with the knife coated with red paint etc. I know some may use real knives and really get cut etc. But where I teach that is not possible or even desired.

[TigerClaw]

Actually you did. You insulted Poon Sing's performance on video from Youtube. He's a CLF elder...

No, I did not insult him, I made constructive criticism, not insult. I merely pointed out what I saw. I think I also compliment him as well, I can't remember fully or even check, because some childish banning took place in there.