The Shaolin Do debate

[JadeDragon]

Do you consider Shaolin Do to be legit or is it bogus? Is it a McDojo? Do they teach real Chinese Kung Fu or is it a hodge podge of stuff from different styles and called kung fu? What is everyone's opinion?

[kingoftheforest]

Most people don't realize that Shoalin didn't invent "Kung-Fu" it had been around long before the temple.

Shoalin was just famous for taking combat and condensing and synthesizing it.

[Ben Grimm]

I've seen the curriculum. How could anybody learn that much. Sin The claiming he learned over 900+ forms... I'd love to know how much his system differs from Hiang The.

[JadeDragon]

From what I've read on Hiang The's web site it looks like the two curriculums are the same. I think Hiang The' was mad that Sin The' beat him to the grandmaster title and decided to start his own style so he could be a grandmaster. Hiang The' calls it Central Shaolin Do where as Sin The' teaches just Shaolin Do. Either way both are bogus and both are McDojos

http://www.centralshaolin.com/

http://www.shaolin-do.com/

http://www.sinthe.com/

[Ben Grimm]

I concur completely.

[TigerClaw]

Do you consider Shaolin Do to be legit or is it bogus? Is it a McDojo? Do they teach real Chinese Kung Fu or is it a hodge podge of stuff from different styles and called kung fu? What is everyone's opinion?

Tell us more about your style, Golden Viper or Green Viper etc. I have seen other forums where they question the validity of it, can you comment?

[JadeDragon]

Tell us more about your style, Golden Viper or Green Viper etc. I have seen other forums where they question the validity of it, can you comment?

Green Bamboo Viper originated on the river banks of Cambodia and made its way up to Southern China and eventually to the Southern Shaolin Temple near Fukien Provence. As it moved up towards Southern China it got more and more refined/sophisticated until it was intigrated into Shoalin. This style of snake uses mostly open hand strikes and few closed hand strikes. It uses low kick such as low hook kicks to the groin area and oblique kicks to the knees. This is the snake style that my grandmaster teaches. His name is GM Wing Loc Johnson Ng. Ng family style kung fu is similiar to Sil Lum Kung Fu with a heavy influence of Six Harmony Kung Fu. You don't learn how to incorporate the Six Harmonies until advanced stages (5th level black sash and above) of training.

[TigerClaw]

Green Bamboo Viper originated on the river banks of Cambodia and made its way up to Southern China and eventually to the Southern Shaolin Temple near Fukien Provence. As it moved up towards Southern China it got more and more refined/sophisticated until it was intigrated into Shoalin. This style of snake uses mostly open hand strikes and few closed hand strikes. It uses low kick such as low hook kicks to the groin area and oblique kicks to the knees. This is the snake style that my grandmaster teaches. His name is GM Wing Loc Johnson Ng. Ng family style kung fu is similiar to Sil Lum Kung Fu with a heavy influence of Six Harmony Kung Fu. You don't incorporate the Six Harmonies until advanced stages (5th level black sash and above) of training.

Ok, fine with me, do you have any video clips of your snake movements? any clips of your instructor etc. I would like to see his style.

Do you have the web site of your school? And perhaps you can video yourself doing a form and post it in here.

[JadeDragon]

Ok, fine with me, do you have any video clips of your snake movements? any clips of your instructor etc. I would like to see his style.

You looked him up on youtube before. He was doing a crane form. Remember? Just go to youtube.com and look up Grandmaster Wing Loc Ng.

[JadeDragon]

Do you have the web site of your school? And perhaps you can video yourself doing a form and post it in here.

No I do not have a web site to my school. My teacher (Master John Dufresne) had a school here in Lexington, Kentucky for about 15 years. Due to his job he had to move back to where he was from (Boston) in 2001. Now he has been relocated again and is living in China. He works for an electronics company that puts GPS devices in cars and other things. He speaks fluent Chinese, thats why they hired him for thier Asian market. He is in charge of drumming up sales in Asia. I teach private lesson from my home gym. I do teach a group of three young adults and the rest are one on one lessons.

[Ben Grimm]

Where in China is he? I would love to train with him if I ever got the chance.

[TigerClaw]

Where in China is he? I would love to train with him if I ever got the chance.

I am sure there is many other Kung Fu masters in Chin you could bother, just go look around the cities or in some remote temple.

But watch out........

[Ben Grimm]

I have more conections in China then you will ever have. While there are many masters I don't know, but I know some and they even teach me things occasionally because I respect them. I know all of the masters in my wife's hometown and I train with them sometimes when time permits. They know what I can do and vice-versa, but I don't brag about what I know nor do I use it in any of their classes unless they ask it of me. I don't have to watch out. I want to be a better martial artist and a better fighter, you on the other hand LARP all day and all night, then preach about how CMA is the best. I love CMA, but from my observations you're making it too damn political. If you want to talk MA politics, I suggest you go elsewhere and create your own forum.

[TigerClaw]

I have more conections in China then you will ever have. While there are many masters I don't know, but I know some and they even teach me things occasionally because I respect them. I know all of the masters in my wife's hometown and I train with them sometimes when time permits. They know what I can do and vice-versa, but I don't brag about what I know nor do I use it in any of their classes unless they ask it of me. I don't have to watch out. I want to be a better martial artist and a better fighter, you on the other hand LARP all day and all night, then preach about how CMA is the best. I love CMA, but from my observations you're making it too damn political. If you want to talk MA politics, I suggest you go elsewhere and create your own forum.

Hey, create my own forum, good idea.

But do you meet then for a brief time and then start questioning them on all their background and lineage and do you mock them for grappling issues? Or do you call them names and curse them and say you want to pound their faces in? Or do you use hard language and rudeness when you meet them? if not, then why have you done this with me?

[Ben Grimm]

No I don't because they have proven it. On the few occasions I have asked about lineage, they show me their family trees with their teachers and students, all the way back to the founder when possible. You have failed to show anything. I have taken beatings from some of them and I'm not ashamed to admit it. I'm proud of it. Because I've learned from my limitations and incorporated some of their things into my own personal style of Wing Chun. I help my teacher teach his curriculum, but in combat I don't use pure WC. If you can show legitimate proof and not just the crap that a 2 year old could come up with, I might retract some of what I said. But since you can't..... well nothing will ever change.