The importance of stances

[TigerClaw]

Hello,

It seems to me that stance training today is not pressed and important as it should be. I know that every martial art there is has some form of stances in their fighting, even MMA. But I don't see strong stances and shifting in stances very much these days. I think stances goes in line with what I call "form fighting". If a person has strong stances and can shift and move in them effortlessly, then he will have a great advantage over other opponents. But if they do not have strong stances etc, they will flop around like so many do in combat and trip over themselves. They will not be able to position themselves for defense or attack properly.

I find one of the best things to do for this is to practice traditional Kung Fu or any other style that stresses good stances and how to keep in them when fighting.

Some may say that stances will fail when a person just rushes in at you and tries to grapple you etc . This is not true, if the person has mastered his stances and can shift and move freely in them. To perfect stances in combat, may be all you need at times, not even your hands.

But weak stances and movement in stances is one of the things I see lacking in many combat arts to day, especially in MMA and other kick boxing competitions. I also see stances lacking in many sport martial arts tournaments as well.

Stances are like the roots of a tree, if they are firm the tree will stand, if they are weak it falls over.

I am not saying we need to practice hours and hours a day in stances, but we need to put stance training at the top of our training.

Whenever I teach a class, I alway have stance training as part of it. We move all over the room n our stances and it gets painful at times. But it helps incredibly. One exercise you can try is to have a person walk at you fairly slow at first and try to bump into you with their body, not their arms yet), and shift away from them and around them etc. Also try placing a object in the center and practice going around it in every direction, keeping low in your stances, don't bob up and down. Use many different stances, and shift from all f hem in various patterns. learn how to move quickly in to other stances. Practice leaping in stances also and moveing forward in attack and back, as well as side stepping and learn how to twist while low in your stance ( try this from a low unicorn stance to the opposite side in a unicorn stance).

[ggg214]

in CMA, the most important thing is to strengthen your lower limb, including waist,crotch,hips.

[jonbey]

Stance word still plays a role in many clubs - although you are right, not as often as it should be. I remember once being asked to take the class, and I asked a mate what I should do - his reply was, just get everyone to stand in horse stance for 45 minutes. Simple. Effective. And requires little planning for the instructor!

I didn't do this though.

[TigerClaw]

Stance word still plays a role in many clubs - although you are right, not as often as it should be. I remember once being asked to take the class, and I asked a mate what I should do - his reply was, just get everyone to stand in horse stance for 45 minutes. Simple. Effective. And requires little planning for the instructor!

I didn't do this though.

It seems today that that kind of training s lacking. Some would stand in their horse stance for the burning of incense sticks. They would train for six months in stances before they learned other tecniques apparently.

The reason stances need to be worked on is to strengthen the muscle groups that are used and to be able to be solid and have a firm foundation. When I was teaching some youth and teens last night I showed them a quick example of this. They stood in a natural stance and were easily pushed over, then they took a forward bow stance and the rear leg acted as the brace and they were firm. Simple, I know, but much of stance training is simple in that regard.

Other martial arts techniques are sort of like this as well. Have your partner hold his arms strait out and then tell him to push down on the arm when you try to push it up with your palm. This will be hard for you to push it up. Now tell him to push up on his arm as you push down with the palm, he will not be able to push up. The principle is easy to understand, and in combat when attacking the bridge moving the hand down is very effective. The same goes with stances. if a person is in a forward bow stance and fighting it is easier to sweep their front foot, if they are not ready. But if they are in a front hanging horse stance (or front cat stance). it is not as easy to sweep the front foot.

Also, when moving in stances and trying not to bob up and down will give strength to certain muscle groups that do not get exercised this way often. After time it becomes easy to practically float over the air in stances and shift from any stance and angle in attack. If you know how to move this way the hand techniques come easier and you will find yourself in the right position. But if the stances are wrong and you have not practiced this movement, everything is fumbled and sloppy and you will find yourself tripping over your feet etc.

But when it come to stance training and conditioning and moving from stance to stance. there is no quick easy fix. It is a long hard path. Kung Fu, means hard work, or a job well done, or hard effort used to achieve a goal.

[JadeDragon]

At my school where I trained stance training was very much emphasized. We would have to hold ma bu for long periods of time. My teacher stressed low ma bu. We had to hold it so low that our thighs were parrallel to the ground and/or be able to balance tea cups on them without them falling.

We also did an exercise called half moon walking. This exercise was to develop good front stances. You would start out in a good low left leg front stance and then you would advance forward by making a half moon shape with your right foot. This is done by sliding your foot in an ark or half circle untill your in a right leg front stance (making sure it's low).

[Tant01]

"A static position leads to static fighting and thinking".

Cassimore Magda

[JadeDragon]

"A static position leads to static fighting and thinking".

Cassimore Magda

What do you mean by static???? Staying in one spot??? If so how do you tarin ma bu with out being "static"?

[Tant01]

Don't throw it out of context, "stances" are great exercise. Emphasizing stillness is a trap in tradition.

[Sagacious Lu]

What do you mean by static???? Staying in one spot??? If so how do you tarin ma bu with out being "static"?

By moving through other stances. You can shift to gong bu (forgive my spelling) and then step to Deow Ma and then back to Ma Bu, or you could step to chiling bu and then mack to Ma Bu, or up to crane. Moving through the stances is more important than standing still. Of course, although this will condition your legs none of it has anything to do with fighting effectively. You certainly don't want to try fighting from any of the traditional stances.

[TigerClaw]

By moving through other stances. You can shift to gong bu (forgive my spelling) and then step to Deow Ma and then back to Ma Bu, or you could step to chiling bu and then mack to Ma Bu, or up to crane. Moving through the stances is more important than standing still. Of course, although this will condition your legs none of it has anything to do with fighting effectively. You certainly don't want to try fighting from any of the traditional stances.

Yes a good martial artsist want to try and fight from traditional stances. A bad martial artist who doesn't practice stances will not be able to fight from traditional stances.

You couldn't be further from the truth

[Tant01]

What it means...

What do you mean by static???? Staying in one spot??? If so how do you tarin ma bu with out being "static"?

Yes a good martial artsist want to try and fight from traditional stances. A bad martial artist who doesn't practice stances will not be able to fight from traditional stances.

You couldn't be further from the truth

Stuck in a proverbial STANCE. Static thinking, static fighting...


::: yawn :::

[Sagacious Lu]

Yes a good martial artsist want to try and fight from traditional stances. A bad martial artist who doesn't practice stances will not be able to fight from traditional stances.

You couldn't be further from the truth

In the years I spent practicing traditional kung fu I met a lot of shr fus, or sifus, from a number of styles; guys that had been practicing for decades. None of them advocated fighting from a traditional stance. Not one. No one in their right mind does. If you'd stop watching movies long enough to pressure test your ideas the reason for this would be obvious to you.

[TigerClaw]

Stuck in a proverbial STANCE. Static thinking, static fighting...


::: yawn :::

Who said your stuck in that, you move al the time.
In the Choy Li Fut style i have learned we are always moving, and in the Seven Star praying mantis style there is a powerful foreward rush and stance shifting. But if you have proper stances the techniques will be better.

In the Hung gar kung Fu i learned the stances are still moving, but more stable and strong. Northern shaolin also has longer stances and leaping etc. Dragon style has tighter stances at times and circulating unicorn stances.

[TigerClaw]

In the years I spent practicing traditional kung fu I met a lot of shr fus, or sifus, from a number of styles; guys that had been practicing for decades. None of them advocated fighting from a traditional stance. Not one. No one in their right mind does. If you'd stop watching movies long enough to pressure test your ideas the reason for this would be obvious to you.

Listen, I have had four masters teach me Kung Fu and many instructors. i also teach Kung Fu and I have been doing so for many years. I teach my students to fight in stances. It takes longer to perfect , but in the long run it is better. Many don't seem to have the time or patience to do this. Any teacher who says not to use the style of fighting he teaches in forms, is not a good teacher in my mind. If i am going to teach. lets say a Choy Li Fut form and I am correcting the students for bad stances and showing them how to move in the stances, and then I say to them after many years of them practicing it, "By the way you cannot fight like this,and the stances are useless, don't fight from them" . Then they had wasted their time. And all the form and techniques that have been passed down for many centuries and that have worked for the originators on combat and war etc would not have any use. In fact all martial arts that have any forms at all would be useless.

But I don't believe that for a second. What traditional Kung Fu have you practiced? and for how long?

[Sagacious Lu]

What traditional Kung Fu have you practiced? and for how long?

I don't feel like repeating myself, but I go into my experience in depth here:

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/chinese-martial-arts/24229-why-i-dont-practice-kung-fu-anymore.html