Analize ELBOWS...

[Tant01]

Look close at the elbow blows in this form. I'm sure many are familiar with the weapon but take a peek at the delivery HERE>>>

Now... I don't know the first thing about gong-fu forms but this looks pretty sharp. I don't know who the man is or who teaches him or even if his posture and footwork are worthy of some comment?

If you care to enlighten me, that would be great! I have some questions about the timing of his hip torque and what the back of the wrist is used for?

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[kingoftheforest]

Looks to be either Baji or Hsing Yi (Shin Yi)

[TTEscrima]

Nice "read" KOTF, it's the small frame set from Loutuan Baji.

That's Lu Baochun performing the set which was part of the curriculum taught at the government run National martial arts academy.

It was brought to the academy by Han Huiqing who won the National no rules competition in 1928 and received the headmaster position as part of his reward.

Loutuan style Baji was synthesized from Taoist Tong Bei Quan (Through the back fist) and Piqua by Wu Zhong. Tong Bei is grandfather to many arts including Hsing Yi.

Tanto1 can you be more specific in your questions? Is there a specific point on the timer you can give me to comment on?

And yeah Tant that's a pretty sweet expression of Baji, Lu Baochun more or less specializes in Baji.

[Tant01]

sure, 06 and 18 and 47

.....
Tanto1 can you be more specific in your questions? Is there a specific point on the timer you can give me to comment on?
And yeah Tant that's a pretty sweet expression of Baji, Lu Baochun more or less specializes in Baji.

There are two elbow blows at the beginning of the form. I thought they were very sharp. around 6 sec. in and at 18 sec.

My specific question is about the back of the wrist being used (demonstrated) at around 48 sec...

Thanks TTE (and KOTF)

[kingoftheforest]

There are two elbow blows at the beginning of the form. I thought they were very sharp. around 6 sec. in and at 18 sec.

My specific question is about the back of the wrist being used (demonstrated) at around 48 sec...

Thanks TTE (and KOTF)

The elbows seem to be used in a similar manner as Black bear turns it's Back.

They are driven inward and downward. The second elbow also looks like if your foot work is correct i.e. your foot behind the other guys feet, you could toss him on the back of his neck pretty hard.

As for the back of the wrist, that seems to be a horse's hoof punch. It's not so much the strike hits with the wrist as it does with the back of the hand, that's just the position that the "whip" lands you in when it's executed correctly.

When you wind up in that position it sets up the next strike.

[TTEscrima]

Nicely read again KOTF. The short set focuses on grappling and striking.

Keep in mind that Baji was synthesized from Tong Bei, then watch this clip of Tong Bei.

YouTube - Wu Mao Gui Tong Bei Form China Camp 2004 see www.susanamatthews.com

You'll notice the components to many popular arts (Baji, Taiji, Hsin Yi, Shaolin Rou Quan....) often in the exact order they appear in the forms. Tong Bei is older than all these arts so its fair it's say the later styles were natural expansions of the study of Tong Bei.

Tong Bei is first and foremost a way of way of movement, yes it is also a style, but the entire style is built upon the way of moving energy through the back. This movement creates a specific type of power and body feel that is maintained throughout the practice of Tong Bei and all the arts it gave birth to.

[TTEscrima]

Tant, Baji is best known for it's elbow and shoulder strikes, they use traditional "hen" "Ha" breathing to increase power. The style was also originally called Rake Fist due to to the fact that many of of it's strikes simulate raking downward and the hand is held in a slightly curved position (like a rake) unless making a fist.

[Tom Yum]

Tant, Baji is best known for it's elbow and shoulder strikes, they use traditional "hen" "Ha" breathing to increase power. The style was also originally called Rake Fist due to to the fact that many of of it's strikes simulate raking downward and the hand is held in a slightly curved position (like a rake) unless making a fist.

Can you explain how gong fu practitioners use shoulder and hip strikes? how they are set up? best times to use them?

[TTEscrima]

Can you explain how gong fu practitioners use shoulder and hip strikes? how they are set up? best times to use them?

Uh, Kung Fu covers a lot of styles Bro.

Baji however uses the Charging step (zhen jiao) to close the distance.The most common movement is the application of (Gau) downward sinking power which is used to deflect any incoming strikes. Hammerfist and elbows are applied to the head and neck to create openings. Once in grappling range they have 6 methods of entry, but these 3 are the first learned: Pushing forward and upward with the fist, elbow, shoulder or hip, to attack the trunk (ding). Embracing (bao). Striking upward with the knee or foot to the thigh or shin to destroy the root (Ti). Baji also uses short explosive power that is chambered and fired in single blasts, instead of linked continual attacks. Once they cross your arms or bump them to the outside they explode into the opponents centerline with the charging step and deliver the shoulder or hip strike.

[kingoftheforest]

Uh, Kung Fu covers a lot of styles Bro.

Baji however uses the Charging step (zhen jiao) to close the distance.The most common movement is the application of (Gau) downward sinking power which is used to deflect any incoming strikes. Hammerfist and elbows are applied to the head and neck to create openings. Once in grappling range they have 6 methods of entry, but these 3 are the first learned: Pushing forward and upward with the fist, elbow, shoulder or hip, to attack the trunk (ding). Embracing (bao). Striking upward with the knee or foot to the thigh or shin to destroy the root (Ti). Baji also uses short explosive power that is chambered and fired in single blasts, instead of linked continual attacks. Once they cross your arms or bump them to the outside they explode into the opponents centerline with the charging step and deliver the shoulder or hip strike.

i know this is Baji you're describing but if you took out the baji at the beginning of the paragraph it'd swear you were describing Hsing Yi.

So what's the biggest difference in the two. Hsin Yi I know gets it's roots from Tong Bei as well. it also blasts through the center line and uses something similar to the charging step, although it may be more or a drop step than a charge?

[Tant01]

Since I know so little about the many styles of Kung-Fu it is simply an amatuer observation to begin with but when I actually "catch" something in the kata (form) I like to ask about things. I may be WAY off base with ANYTHING I assume but I want to put a karambit in his hand and watch him again.

I highly doubt there is a RATTLE SNAKE form in kung-fu but I find myself thinking how subtle and DECEPTIVE the attacks might be with a slight of hand (distraction) with a weapon like a fist load or a SHORT blade in reverse grip. Shake the rattle on your tail and strike with your (fangs)...



I was exposed to some VERY kung-fu LIKE techniques (via silat) that included elbow blows delivered very much like the strikes in this form. Never figured out how to time it perfectly but I can give a crude imitation of that particular elbow strike.

I see things that I hesitate to point out on the forum because they look like lethal techniques I was taught long ago. Just add a weapon....

Thanks kindly for your feedback gentlemen.

[Tant01]

Cutting to the bone...

Uh, Kung Fu covers a lot of styles Bro.

Baji however uses the Charging step (zhen jiao) to close the distance.The most common movement is the application of (Gau) downward sinking power which is used to deflect any incoming strikes. Hammerfist and elbows are applied to the head and neck to create openings. Once in grappling range they have 6 methods of entry, but these 3 are the first learned: Pushing forward and upward with the fist, elbow, shoulder or hip, to attack the trunk (ding). Embracing (bao). Striking upward with the knee or foot to the thigh or shin to destroy the root (Ti). Baji also uses short explosive power that is chambered and fired in single blasts, instead of linked continual attacks. Once they cross your arms or bump them to the outside they explode into the opponents centerline with the charging step and deliver the shoulder or hip strike.

Again I declare my ignorance of Kung-fu but would these strikes TARGET SPECIFIC vascular or STRUCTURAL elements NOT limited to centerline defence but with INTENTIONAL deanimation in mind?

At the most sanguinary I see outright killing as the objectiove if the INTENT is there? (and a weapon)???

[Tant01]

The topic is ELBOWS Tom...

Can you explain how gong fu practitioners use shoulder and hip strikes? how they are set up? best times to use them?

.............. Maybe my Judo is REALLY kung-fu?

LOL

The karambit is toward the end.

Killing someone with his own weapon is fairly HIGH ART from MY PERSPECTIVE...

Thanks for looking. I'm sure you can find a few similarities in this clip with the closing principles and elbow blows in the previous clip...

Or not?

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[kingoftheforest]

Since I know so little about the many styles of Kung-Fu it is simply an amatuer observation to begin with but when I actually "catch" something in the kata (form) I like to ask about things. I may be WAY off base with ANYTHING I assume but I want to put a karambit in his hand and watch him again.

I highly doubt there is a RATTLE SNAKE form in kung-fu but I find myself thinking how subtle and DECEPTIVE the attacks might be with a slight of hand (distraction) with a weapon like a fist load or a SHORT blade in reverse grip. Shake the rattle on your tail and strike with your (fangs)...



I was exposed to some VERY kung-fu LIKE techniques (via silat) that included elbow blows delivered very much like the strikes in this form. Never figured out how to time it perfectly but I can give a crude imitation of that particular elbow strike.

I see things that I hesitate to point out on the forum because they look like lethal techniques I was taught long ago. Just add a weapon....

Thanks kindly for your feedback gentlemen.

Adding a weapon wouldn't change the form a whole lot if any, depending on the weapon.

As TTE explained it comes from Rake fist so i don't see why adding a hooked knife would be a problem. mind you I'm no expert either.

Are far as timing the delivery, that's exactly what TTE was explaining with Tong Bei. The power is generated from your back so the "oomph" if you will is a little different as too the angel it penetrates at and the direction of the force.

There is a lot of similarity between Silat and CMA's. The way power is generated and the intended results vary but the core concepts seem to remain.

[Tant01]

Adding a weapon wouldn't change the form a whole lot if any, depending on the weapon.

As TTE explained it comes from Rake fist so i don't see why adding a hooked knife would be a problem. mind you I'm no expert either.

Are far as timing the delivery, that's exactly what TTE was explaining with Tong Bei. The power is generated from your back so the "oomph" if you will is a little different as too the angel it penetrates at and the direction of the force.

There is a lot of similarity between Silat and CMA's. The way power is generated and the intended results vary but the core concepts seem to remain.

Exactly my point.

I hesitate to display the ABUNDANCE of my ignorance but I "see" a bit of the potential for weapons in almost any FORM. I mostly look for things that are LIKE the "things" I know how to do...

Cutting stuff is easy with the right tool. This DOWNWARD blow could easily sever major structure (vascular and muscular)...

Not to change the topic away from elbows but look what can be "cut" with a little hook (claw) blade knife...)

Awesome and fear inspiring indeed...