Old footage of Chinese Kungfu Sifu's fighting?

[Bjjexpertise@be]

I stumbled across this video on youtube.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S19VsB7__v0[/YOUTUBE]
It's in cantonese but all the announcer really says is that they're going to look at different portions of the fight from 3 different point of views and some other filler stuff. I'll comment back on my own thread later as for now, class time!

[Sagacious Lu]

Cool stuff. They're obviously pretty hard-nosed to be fighting bare-knuckle. I don't understand why they constantly had their hands down though, especially give the number of head shots thrown. Additionally, neither of them seemed to be hitting all that hard, and some of it just looked like sloppy boxing. However, it was interesting to see some unorthodox strikes thrown. That guy might just have something going with those hammer fist he's throwing, but I still think he needs to keep his hands up.

[ggg214]

this is famous video online, especially for taiji practitioners.
one of the two guys is the master Wu Gong Yi, who was a member of Wu family.
taiji practioners think it's a show that taiji is also useful in real fight.
^-^

[pstevens]

Proof that kung-fu is reduced to flailing arms when under duress. It's quite funny how whenever there's a video showing how REAL kung-fu looks, kung-fu guys quickly comment that it's not the REAL kung-fu and that the people looking like foolish idiots aren't kung-fu guys...

You don't find such videos concerning BJJ, boxing or muay thai... except blatant attempts to discredit them.

[Ben Grimm]

They can't handle the adrenaline rush.

[jmd161]

Proof that kung-fu is reduced to flailing arms when under duress. It's quite funny how whenever there's a video showing how REAL kung-fu looks, kung-fu guys quickly comment that it's not the REAL kung-fu and that the people looking like foolish idiots aren't kung-fu guys...

You don't find such videos concerning BJJ, boxing or muay thai... except blatant attempts to discredit them.

There is no denying this video the two were/are as far as I know considered masters. I think what it shows is what I've been saying and my sifu has always told me.

"If you want to learn to fight, you learn from a fighter!"


Too many masters have never fought themselves, but are quick to try and teach you how to fight. My sifu grew up In a family where his grandfather taught him Hung Gar and his uncle was a Choy Lay Fut master. Yet when he was old enough he chose to learn Black Tiger from Grandmaster Wong Cheung, why?

Sifu says openly I wanted to learn kung fu for one reason to FIGHT! So I sought out someone that had used their kung fu in actual fighting to learn from. If you know anything about Chinese culture... you know that's very disrespectful to just go outside the family like that. But it's also the difference in his ability to perform forms and fight.

jeff

[JadeDragon]

Proof that kung-fu is reduced to flailing arms when under duress. It's quite funny how whenever there's a video showing how REAL kung-fu looks, kung-fu guys quickly comment that it's not the REAL kung-fu and that the people looking like foolish idiots aren't kung-fu guys...

You don't find such videos concerning BJJ, boxing or muay thai... except blatant attempts to discredit them.

Your biased opinion is showing through. You obviously are a BJJ practitioner or grapplier of some type.

[jmd161]

JadeDragon,

I don't argue with people over vids like this because it's useless. There is no way to deny these guys are supposed to be masters in CMA. It is a sad and bad video of masters of CMA fighting. Until there is video showing otherwise...you're never going to change a persons view of CMA with mere words against visual proof showing otherwise.


jeff

[JadeDragon]

JadeDragon,

I don't argue with people over vids like this because it's useless. There is no way to deny these guys are supposed to be masters in CMA. It is a sad and bad video of masters of CMA fighting. Until there is video showing otherwise...you're never going to change a persons view of CMA with mere words against visual proof showing otherwise. jeff

I'm not going to say the video is good or bad because I'm at work and can't view youtube due to a company block on it BUT even if I could view it I'm not going to let a bad sparring session between to CMA determine weather I think CMA's are good or bad. I can show you numerous piss poor fighting vid clips in BJJ, Sambo, Wrestling, Muey Thai, etc.... But I'm not going to let that bias my opinioon of those arts either.

[jmd161]

I'm not going to say the video is good or bad because I'm at work and can't view youtube due to a company block on it BUT even if I could view it I'm not going to let a bad sparring session between to CMA determine weather I think CMA's are good or bad. I can show you numerous piss poor fighting vid clips in BJJ, Sambo, Wrestling, Muey Thai, etc.... But I'm not going to let that bias my opinioon of those arts either.

Well I'm sure you can find bad video in any art, that's not the problem here. The problem here is finding actual good video of CMA in action. I'm not talking about Cung Le either because that's different.

jeff

[JadeDragon]

Well I'm sure you can find bad video in any art, that's not the problem here. The problem here is finding actual good video of CMA in action. I'm not talking about Cung Le either because that's different.
jeff

Okay, this is not a video clip of fighting but this is a video clip of my granmaster of my lineage doing a dragon form and you will also see some clips of some of his students as well. Go to youtube and search the name Grandmaster John Wing Lok Ng. It should pull the clip up for you to watch. I will warn you it is an old video but good though. I can not post the link because I'm at work.

[pstevens]

Okay, this is not a video clip of fighting but this is a video clip of my granmaster of my lineage doing a dragon form and you will also see some clips of some of his students as well. Go to youtube and search the name Grandmaster John Wing Lok Ng. It should pull the clip up for you to watch. I will warn you it is an old video but good though. I can not post the link because I'm at work.

The fact that one can perform a form flawlessly or drills for that matter; imply very little about their ability to defend against a real opponent. I've seen guys who looked great in the gym, but performed terribly in competition. There are guys who are all about forms, but can't fight worth squat.

You’re correct that I’m a grappler/mma person; but I’m also trying to be objective. Everyone’s opinion will be bias; but it’s important to be objective. At least I’m not like many folks who come out and say, “…even though I love kung-fu, it stinks… because blah, blah, blah...” I'm stating the obvious: kung-fu fails on many levels and this is just another example.

What I’m saying is that the traditional stances, striking and training of kung-fu disappear when confronted with real combat emotions, stress and aggression. While this can also be said about many other arts, it’s most predominant in kung-fu due to its insistence on traditional methods that are no longer valid; some of which were never valid.

This video and others like it show real proof that when confronted with real combat implications, kung-fu is inadequate. Yes, there are videos of poor BJJ out there, but the practitioners are still using BJJ; even as they are out-gunned by someone who also has knowledge of BJJ, among other things.

[jmd161]

Okay, this is not a video clip of fighting but this is a video clip of my granmaster of my lineage doing a dragon form and you will also see some clips of some of his students as well. Go to youtube and search the name Grandmaster John Wing Lok Ng. It should pull the clip up for you to watch. I will warn you it is an old video but good though. I can not post the link because I'm at work.

He moves very well, but that's not what I meant about good video of kung fu in action. I was referring to a video of a kung fu stylist fighting.


jeff

[JadeDragon]

What I’m saying is that the traditional stances, striking and training of kung-fu disappear when confronted with real combat emotions, stress and aggression. While this can also be said about many other arts, it’s most predominant in kung-fu due to its insistence on traditional methods that are no longer valid; some of which were never valid.

The use of traditional stances are used when practicing punching and kicking but should not be used in actual fighting. No one in there right mind would use a ma bu (horse stance) or a front stance in a real fight. These stance would just leave you to vulnerable. These stances are used for traditional sake and to help build strength in the legs. The stances that would be used in combat are what we call non-traditional stances (example: fighting stance). As far as the kung fu strikes disappearing in combat, I uses them when I fight. I have used thumb strikes before as well as palm strikes and tiger claws. Those who revert back to kickboxing style fighting just haven't been trained properly then.

[jmd161]

The use of traditional stances are used when practicing punching and kicking but should not be used in actual fighting. No one in there right mind would use a ma bu (horse stance) or a front stance in a real fight. These stance would just leave you to vulnerable. These stances are used for traditional sake and to help build strength in the legs. The stances that would be used in combat are what we call non-traditional stances (example: fighting stance). As far as the kung fu strikes disappearing in combat, I uses them when I fight. I have used thumb strikes before as well as palm strikes and tiger claws.

JadeDragon,

From your post that I have read on this and other forums, I'll come right out and say this....It's people like "YOU" that have made kung fu the joke it is. You call yourself a sifu/teacher yet you go to martial arts forums to ask how to use/apply techniques within your own style!

You make statements like the one above about stances only being suited for training and that kung fu is too deadly for sport. It's obvious you know nothing about the art you are sucking the life out of. It's people like yourself running kung fu schools teaching people half arse kung fu and promoting generations of unskilled , inexperienced, ineffective technique using zombies with no clue. I really wish this was the old days when frauds like yourself would be beaten and forced to close your school after you were challenged and exposed.

People like You really are selfish!

You lead to the demise of kung fu, yet you bleed whatever you can from it while you can, instead of seeking out legit teachers and trying to change the downward spiral.

Those who revert back to kickboxing style fighting just haven't been trained properly then.

This is about the only thing I agree with in your post!

I'm pretty sure from your post that you'd be one of the same that reverted to kick boxing when confronted. People revert back to such things when the fragile foundation they built their mountain on crumbles.

jeff