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HI
just wanted to share some thoughts and experiences:
I trained in tong long (preying mantis) for about six years during university, and achieved my black sash during this time. I ended up leaving the style and have since been doing BJJ for the past 5 years.
Whilst KF still holds a special place in my heart I have to say that in general it falls well short of being an effective martial art for many reasons, and I think much of this has to do with the training methods and the chinese culture that underpins the way things are done.
By and large CMA schools are headed by one guy who is 'the man'. The discipline and culture of the school is such that no one can ever hope to challenge the instructor let alone reach a point where they would match or surpass his skill. This is classicly displayed in schools such as LT Wing Chun and Cheungs Wing Chun. These schools are run by old men but still people believe that there is no way they could ever hope to surpass them in fighting skill. Nonsense. By comparison Helio Gracie, the now deceased legend of BJJ was always revered by BJJers for his past deeds and skill, but no one was under the illusion that he was going to still be able to beat a 20-30 yr old black belt when he was clearly past his prime.
The other difference is that instructors in BJJ (and basically any other combat sport) are more than willing to particpate in the training and constantly put themselves to the test through sparring, randori or whatever other form the contest takes. By contrast most CMA teachers stand aloof from their students, some even teaching from a chair, because they know the culture is such that they will not be challenged. The nett effect of this is that the style actually turns toward a downward trajectory of skill rather than evolution and enhancement. A free exchange of ideas and pressure testing are the only means by which improvements are ever made in any field (Thomas Edisons hundreds of failures with his inventions come to mind here) before success is reaped.
The other aspect which ties into this is the training methods. In kung fu we waste so much time doing things that have no practical application or purpose. Spending hours perfecting a strike in the air in a horse stance only serves to give you leg strength in an unnatural posture and makes to really good at striking the air. Whilst the dedication to do this is admirable the transfer to fighting is limited at best. Forms training is the other waste of time if your goal is fighting effectiveness (and I acknowledge that many people enjoy forms for their artistic, physical and other benefits so I'm not down on forms per se). Again the end result is that only a fraction of the typical KF class is spent doing things that actually develop a fighter. Contrast this with the Muay Thai person that spends the entire session working fighting fitness, strikes and techniques against pads and with a free moving and free thinking partner then ties it all together with the meat of the training which is some form of sparring.
I had the fortune of attending an MMA comp on the weekend. The odd thing was that a local kung fu school had entered three of their men. Two of them were defeated by MMA students in less than 30 seconds (one in less than 9 seconds) both by rear naked choke. The third lasted 2 rounds but interestingly his opponent was a traditional JJitsu guy, neither of them looked particularly impressive and the match decended into a pub style slug fest.
The thing that stood out to me was that these guys were doing the same old stuff that KFers have been doing for decades and IT STILL DIDN'T WORK. Yet I'm sure they will return to training in exactly the same was as they always have only harder. Is this not the definition of insanity?
This post hasn't quite turned out the way i intended and I don't mean to bash kung fu, but to me after more than 10 years in the martial arts the recipe for learning to fight (if that is your goal) is simple: combat sports, particularly MMA are the road to travel. Boxing, Muay Thai, Sanda, Judo, BJJ, Sambo, Wrestling etc are all feeders to MMA and they all have the same thing in common. They test you mentally and physically and train you to become better at combat in whatever phase they emphasise. Simple.
If you want to get better at striking, then spar with striking; identify weaknesses or challenges, drill them specificaly in modified sparring, then bring that small piece back to the whole game of free sparring. If you want to be able to defend against a stick attack the SAME PRINCIPLE applies though the techniques will be different. Test, question, isolate, re-test.
Sorry for the long post. Best wishes
just wanted to share some thoughts and experiences:
I trained in tong long (preying mantis) for about six years during university, and achieved my black sash during this time. I ended up leaving the style and have since been doing BJJ for the past 5 years.
Whilst KF still holds a special place in my heart I have to say that in general it falls well short of being an effective martial art for many reasons, and I think much of this has to do with the training methods and the chinese culture that underpins the way things are done.
By and large CMA schools are headed by one guy who is 'the man'. The discipline and culture of the school is such that no one can ever hope to challenge the instructor let alone reach a point where they would match or surpass his skill. This is classicly displayed in schools such as LT Wing Chun and Cheungs Wing Chun. These schools are run by old men but still people believe that there is no way they could ever hope to surpass them in fighting skill. Nonsense. By comparison Helio Gracie, the now deceased legend of BJJ was always revered by BJJers for his past deeds and skill, but no one was under the illusion that he was going to still be able to beat a 20-30 yr old black belt when he was clearly past his prime.
The other difference is that instructors in BJJ (and basically any other combat sport) are more than willing to particpate in the training and constantly put themselves to the test through sparring, randori or whatever other form the contest takes. By contrast most CMA teachers stand aloof from their students, some even teaching from a chair, because they know the culture is such that they will not be challenged. The nett effect of this is that the style actually turns toward a downward trajectory of skill rather than evolution and enhancement. A free exchange of ideas and pressure testing are the only means by which improvements are ever made in any field (Thomas Edisons hundreds of failures with his inventions come to mind here) before success is reaped.
The other aspect which ties into this is the training methods. In kung fu we waste so much time doing things that have no practical application or purpose. Spending hours perfecting a strike in the air in a horse stance only serves to give you leg strength in an unnatural posture and makes to really good at striking the air. Whilst the dedication to do this is admirable the transfer to fighting is limited at best. Forms training is the other waste of time if your goal is fighting effectiveness (and I acknowledge that many people enjoy forms for their artistic, physical and other benefits so I'm not down on forms per se). Again the end result is that only a fraction of the typical KF class is spent doing things that actually develop a fighter. Contrast this with the Muay Thai person that spends the entire session working fighting fitness, strikes and techniques against pads and with a free moving and free thinking partner then ties it all together with the meat of the training which is some form of sparring.
I had the fortune of attending an MMA comp on the weekend. The odd thing was that a local kung fu school had entered three of their men. Two of them were defeated by MMA students in less than 30 seconds (one in less than 9 seconds) both by rear naked choke. The third lasted 2 rounds but interestingly his opponent was a traditional JJitsu guy, neither of them looked particularly impressive and the match decended into a pub style slug fest.
The thing that stood out to me was that these guys were doing the same old stuff that KFers have been doing for decades and IT STILL DIDN'T WORK. Yet I'm sure they will return to training in exactly the same was as they always have only harder. Is this not the definition of insanity?
This post hasn't quite turned out the way i intended and I don't mean to bash kung fu, but to me after more than 10 years in the martial arts the recipe for learning to fight (if that is your goal) is simple: combat sports, particularly MMA are the road to travel. Boxing, Muay Thai, Sanda, Judo, BJJ, Sambo, Wrestling etc are all feeders to MMA and they all have the same thing in common. They test you mentally and physically and train you to become better at combat in whatever phase they emphasise. Simple.
If you want to get better at striking, then spar with striking; identify weaknesses or challenges, drill them specificaly in modified sparring, then bring that small piece back to the whole game of free sparring. If you want to be able to defend against a stick attack the SAME PRINCIPLE applies though the techniques will be different. Test, question, isolate, re-test.
Sorry for the long post. Best wishes
shazzam...
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