San Shou

[jubaji]

I think modern Judo is more popular in the sport aspect, than in the SD aspect.

SC isn't as popular because there aren't any U.S. organizations touting tattooed ,funky hair colored, wild eyed yelling maniacs, in tournaments in it.

The military currently, and has in the past used SC in it's curriculum.

It hasn't been watered down enough to be popular like most Judo has.

SC isn't as popular because there aren't many organizations period (there may be an element of chicken-egg thing there). Kinda hard to be popular when there aren't many opportunities to train it. It's not a matter of being "watered down" (oh, can we cry about "bashing" JMA now? ), and sour grapes won't change that.

Does every single discussion that touches in any way on CMA have to become insipid 'turf defending' by some folks who see 'CMA bashers' hidden around every corner and for some reason have anointed themselves the defenders of all things CMA?

Calm the **** down with the defensiveness already.

[jubaji]

I've never seen so many men obsessed with another mans hair before.

We don't want to hear about your fantasies, please.

[jubaji]

KOTF your ponytail is creepy and pathetic.

Well there you go...

[kingoftheforest]

Jeezus Christ. The only thing I see is a few people discussing CMA's and a couple of pig cartoon loving, closet homosexuals, who never matured past the 3rd grade.

[jubaji]

Attention: Not bashing cma

discussing CMA's

What a good idea! So, would you agree that it is hard for SC to gain in popularity if there aren't more opportunities for people to learn about and train in it?

[Tom Yum]

All smashing and crashing into your opponent is part of the strike that sets up the throw. The basic tenet of SC is that the moment you touch your opponent you should steal his root. There are specific stepping patterns (steal stepping) and such that help but mostly like any other system body feel is the key to knowing (and throwing) your opponent.

The majority of the throws we use don't require you to grab onto the opponent, instead they rely on SC tenets of lower body control through stepping or entangling the legs and upper body control usually supplied by the diagonal strike.

I was taught SC to supplement the JJJ and Combat judo techniques because they provide different ways to down an opponent when your hands are occupied. Its also rare thus the average person has no idea whats happening to them or how to counter it. It's become hugely popular with the Marine Recon units of late.

I tried to pos rep, but the computer won't let me.

[Tom Yum]

What a good idea! So, would you agree that it is hard for SC to gain in popularity if there aren't more opportunities for people to learn about and train in it?

I think people would like to see certain arts become more popular, but its probably better that they aren't. Has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the art - I still appreciate a good, effective martial art style that isn't always about the number of practitioners or commercialization.

[Tom Yum]

Fortunately, most SD guys never actually put into practice what they 'train' so you should be ok for a while.

Its kind of hard to put an art like silat or kali into actual practice, atleast from a legal perspective, unless you're in a situation where you are fighting for your life.

Drills are the only way to do it so that the practitioner can perfect his technique and timing. There are some alternative methods, like wearing padded suits that the dog brothers wear, but they still get beat up pretty bad - but its worth it to test those skills like that.

How do you practice with weapons, vital striking and finishing moves as a self defense art?

I think practicing combat sports gives you the platform and attributes to be in a fight, but you fight the way you train...so the only way to integrate some self defense is from drills, drills and more drills - getting creative with them so that you can make them more realistic.

I probably don't want to grapple or fight from the ground against multiple opponents, unless I absolutely have to.

[jubaji]

I think people would like to see certain arts become more popular, but its probably better that they aren't.

Interesting question. Why better?

[jubaji]

Its kind of hard to put an art like silat or kali into actual practice, atleast from a legal perspective, unless you're in a situation where you are fighting for your life.

Drills are the only way to do it so that the practitioner can perfect his technique and timing. There are some alternative methods, like wearing padded suits that the dog brothers wear, but they still get beat up pretty bad - but its worth it to test those skills like that.

How do you practice with weapons, vital striking and finishing moves as a self defense art?

I think practicing combat sports gives you the platform and attributes to be in a fight, but you fight the way you train...so the only way to integrate some self defense is from drills, drills and more drills - getting creative with them so that you can make them more realistic.

It seems we always come back to this apparently unresolvable problem. People want to do (or believe they would be able to do) more than 'sports' would likely make possible, but those are just the things that cannot actually be trained (as opposed to simulated in some way).

And so the bickering goes on forever...

[Tant01]

yank yourself

It seems we always come back to this apparently unresolvable problem. People want to do (or believe they would be able to do) more than 'sports' would likely make possible, but those are just the things that cannot actually be trained (as opposed to simulated in some way).

And so the bickering goes on forever...

Can be trained in unorthadox methods.

I must have smashed my shins and palms and elbows and knees... Okay, my head too. (Actual brain damage is not really my point...) I wore the bark off living trees and killed MANY OTHER creatures with my tools of choice. Long guns for huntiung, pistols and knives (and hammers and my bare hands) for domestic beasts or dispatching mortally wounded pets, etc.

Killing is killing... I'm sure you've read how "serial killers" start with cruelty toward animals....

Once you've conditioned your conscious to the sanguinary business of DOING these traumatic things... SPORT and ART hold little value. CONDITIONING your body parts is seriously OLD school stuff that many may scoff but it doesn't take a brain surgeon to see how a calous or deadened nerves can help one inflict or absorb horific trauma...

Who here can do finger pull ups?




That is all...

[TTEscrima]

Can be trained in unorthadox methods.

I must have smashed my shins and palms and elbows and knees... Okay, my head too. (Actual brain damage is not really my point...) I wore the bark off living trees and killed MANY OTHER creatures with my tools of choice. Long guns for huntiung, pistols and knives (and hammers and my bare hands) for domestic beasts or dispatching mortally wounded pets, etc.

Killing is killing... I'm sure you've read how "serial killers" start with cruelty toward animals....

Once you've conditioned your conscious to the sanguinary business of DOING these traumatic things... SPORT and ART hold little value. CONDITIONING your body parts is seriously OLD school stuff that many may scoff but it doesn't take a brain surgeon to see how a calous or deadened nerves can help one inflict or absorb horific trauma...

Who here can do finger pull ups?




That is all...

EXCELLENT post!! Indeed, IMO all any martial art is at its core is conditioning the mind and body for specific tasks.

Some people like to believe they can prepare themselves for survival through playing sports, but a game is a game, survival is never a game.

If sports trained people for SD we wouldn't have Martial arts and survival training, instead of H2H combat the military would have you play football and rugby...and wrestling and boxing would be a part of the program, they aren't because they were proven inferior in the 40's when the military tried them in the V program.

It was agreed they were better than nothing for preparing children to transition to adulthood and the rigors of combat conditioning but it was also agreed it was only beneficial for kids, adults needed to move on to training more suitable to increasing their abilities to fight.

If you read SOCNET you saw the guy last week who tried to claim his HS/college wrestling prepared him for adrenalin dump he would face in combat and simple SD, to say he was laughed off the site by the SF operators is an understatement.

[jubaji]

I must have smashed my shins and palms and elbows and knees... Okay, my head too. (Actual brain damage is not really my point...) I wore the bark off living trees and killed MANY OTHER creatures with my tools of choice. Long guns for huntiung, pistols and knives (and hammers and my bare hands) for domestic beasts or dispatching mortally wounded pets, etc.

Killing is killing... I'm sure you've read how "serial killers" start with cruelty toward animals....

Once you've conditioned your conscious to the sanguinary business of DOING these traumatic things... SPORT and ART hold little value. CONDITIONING your body parts is seriously OLD school stuff that many may scoff ...

Conditioning the body is something that 'sport' folks do to a far greater degree than most others, and in a more focused and practical way too. Who has the more useful tool, someone who spent years kicking trees JUST to make his shins hard or someone who got hard shins from years of MT training and fighting?

I don't believe that chopping down trees or killing animals makes anyone more likely to kill another human being or indicates a greater willingness to do so.

[jubaji]

Some people like to believe they can prepare themselves for survival through playing sports.

And some like to think they can do it by playing 'make-believe'

[jubaji]

If you read SOCNET you saw the guy last week who tried to claim his HS/college wrestling prepared him for adrenalin dump he would face in combat and simple SD

Combat in terms of fighting in a war? I doubt much would really prepare him for that but that.


SD? Someone who has experienced another person actually getting physically violent with them and trying to dominate them is a hell of a lot closer to that than someone who hasn't. And importantly, someone who has been involved in physically violent sports all their life is very, very likely to have actually been in a number of actual 'street' situations in their life vs someone who has only ever paid monthly dues to learn to avoid such things.

Someone who has no SD seminar t-shirts and has never been involved in a sport art but has been in a lot of scraps in the street would surely be someone worth taking cautiously as well.