KOTF weekly.

[kingoftheforest]

Not claiming to be an expert on anything. In fact I came here to gain more information.

If your ego is truly that fragile that you cant discuss your style with anybody except people who agree with anything you say, then thats a shame.

Nothing wrong with my ego, just plenty wrong with your hearing.

Nobody tried to pass the vid in question off as WC or knife defense or hubud.

And if you are part of Eargrinds crew I doubt you came in here with honorable intentions, or the idea that you were doing anything but ridiculing someone.

Your group is well known around the internet for that type of thing.

Humble your not that's for sure. You made your self look like a fool 2 times in one thread. Bow out and save face since your other attempts have only landed you on your face.

[Da Pope]

LOL I though you had me on ignore?

I am not part of Eargrind's group you make an assumption that is incorrect.

I will state this again I come here to talk about your vids but you seem intent on painting me as some brash arrogant upstart rather than just getting stuck in and talking to me like an adult.

[Movement]

sorry kotf this is going to sound dis-respectful, even though it's not meant to be so please only take this as constructive criticism

ok i'm curious have you ever had to defend yourself in a real life or death situation?

I only ask because during the first video I see that you have next to nothing in the way of defence you're using what i would call offensive defence but nothing to really defend yourself, ontop of that you lean forward enough to render you off balance especially in an adrenaline charged situation. and you also seem to be using a concept that allows one to move around an opponent whilst they are throwing a single punch and the punch is almost always with a step. most of my experience tells me that people throw sneaky jabs without moving much to start a fight.

second video, again you tend to lean forward a bit much for my liking and seem once again to train in a way that you must be a fair bit quicker then your opponent.

either video it looks like you are stumbling around with next to no timing in your foot work and little in the way of base of support. (no i'm not saying you should have a wide stance, just wider then you're using.)





again i truly do not mean any dis-respect. i am actually looking forward to hearing your reasoning for what i am seeing as errors. since if you do have a better way of doing something I will change what i do and use the better system.

[Tant01]

Hear what you want to hear?

Maybe you should....it has taken you quite awhile to come up with that but it aint what you say on the vid.....

"Ok that was the uh first exercise I did on the dummy and it was uh basically HUBUD you side step............."

you even give the camera a little look when you say it !!!!

C'Mon man its there on vid !!!

get a grip!!

He's NOT saying "HUBUD" ... I hear "YOU WOULD"

Listen again after you pull your head out of your ass...

[Da Pope]

I unreservedly take it all back

[kingoftheforest]

Nicely Done

sorry kotf this is going to sound dis-respectful, even though it's not meant to be so please only take this as constructive criticism

No disrespect taken. You have asked valid question in a manner that is not acussatory, they also seem to be unbiased so far from other people's opinion of me personally. This is perfect material for discussion.

ok i'm curious have you ever had to defend yourself in a real life or death situation?

While bouncing at bars may not be life or death that is where most of my expierence comes from. I've been in 2 altercations outside the bar scene where in one I was slashed across the arm and another where I was stabbed in the outer thigh.

The arm required stitches, I went to the ER for the leg but they just bandaged it up.

Both times I was lucky to subdue my attacker without further injury to myself.

I have no military or LEO SD expierence.

I hope that helps answer that.

I only ask because during the first video I see that you have next to nothing in the way of defence you're using what i would call offensive defence but nothing to really defend yourself, ontop of that you lean forward enough to render you off balance especially in an adrenaline charged situation. and you also seem to be using a concept that allows one to move around an opponent whilst they are throwing a single punch and the punch is almost always with a step. most of my experience tells me that people throw sneaky jabs without moving much to start a fight.

All fine observations. Yes offensive defense would be a good term for what I do. My defense and attack are incorporated in the same movements. The key ingrediant is not being where your assailant thinks you should be. i.e. in line with his attack.

The leaning is due to the fact that I am trying to get a lot of basics out first. Normally as I defend/attack I would step into the opponent.

Either to the outside using something akin to Bagua stepping, thus giving me a better chance at my opponents back as well as clearing me from their attack line.

As well as that step could be a kick or plant my foot behind the assailant. If I did that to my uke should would be on her ass everytime because she is throwing just a punch for video purposes.



The reason for the single punch is so that the concept conveys on the video better.

As far as the punch with a step. Most people have a lead foot, and it's usually out before the first strike. We don't practice that as much as turning our bodies at an angle to the oponent. I'll have my uke correct that. I didn't really notice because that is not how she's used to atacking. We don't have a pre fight hands up set. I'll be covering that later.

The sneeky jab would initate my defensive attack. While moving in and stepping offline you explosively crash into the opponent collapsing their attack or moving around it.

second video, again you tend to lean forward a bit much for my liking and seem once again to train in a way that you must be a fair bit quicker then your opponent.

It's not so much that you are quicker, but that you practice and understand the lines of attack and then just remove yourself from where the opponent is attacking. In essence you gain better positioning through more efficent movement.

either video it looks like you are stumbling around with next to no timing in your foot work and little in the way of base of support. (no i'm not saying you should have a wide stance, just wider then you're using.)

Drunken style influence what we do somewhat in the relaxed power department. What you are noticing is called a floating root. We use it to change direction very quickly. That shows up as what is referred to as sloppiness in our movement, but allows a strike or kick to be throw from different angles effectivley and efficiently.

It also helps to move around the opponent. Lots of the foot work is also influenced by internal CMA's. i.e. Bagua Hsing Yi and Tai Chi.


While it may not look it my balance is very good, and I can also lift one foot off the ground at any given time even though it may look weighted. It's a false weight.

again i truly do not mean any dis-respect. i am actually looking forward to hearing your reasoning for what i am seeing as errors. since if you do have a better way of doing something I will change what i do and use the better system.

Nothing is "better" or "best". It depends on the person and how much you train.

A lot of people are used to rigid styles that require things to be precise and follow a demanding pattern. That goes out the window in a real fight.

Real fights that I have seen are ugly, quick, and brutal. Over almost before you realize they start if you're a bystandard. Nothing graceful or pretty about them at all.

I'm still at work but got a break to answer you movement. If more questions arise feel free to ask. It's apparent you have knowledge and you are polite and seemingly unassuming. I always enjoy discussing things to people as opposed to "explaining" myself to some one because they feel I "owe" it to them.


This is not directed at you movement:

On a side not, I posted thede vids by request from another similar fellow who was curious. I am not trying to get students, nor do I personally want any. There are more competent people in my camp that can do that.

I'm not out for glory fame, or recognition none of those things intrest me. I am just here to learn share and attempt to forward my knowledge and the art I use.

No one has to agree like, or even care about what I do. People will choose what they want no matter what is said. I'm not here to persuade or disuade anyone.

I'll discuss as long as the tone is fair and even, if you come in accusing well then what are people to think?

[kingoftheforest]

KOTF, I like what you are doing. And, you explain it well.

Thanks Mr.A. I'd like to believe I'm at least competent but I still have a lot to learn and hopefully a while to do it.

[Movement]

ok i have a feeling this will be a long discussion between the two of us, i can't write much now but will do as soon as i have time,

would you rather we chat in here or over pm's?

[kingoftheforest]

ok i have a feeling this will be a long discussion between the two of us, i can't write much now but will do as soon as i have time,

would you rather we chat in here or over pm's?

let's start with PM's and progress from there. If you don't mind.

[Tant01]

dang it...

let's start with PM's and progress from there. If you don't mind.

Yeah but...

[kingoftheforest]

Yeah but...

Oh it'll make it into the thread. A lot of his questions I planned on going over in future vids.


Patience buddy.

[kingoftheforest]

You know what I would like to see Videos of, King? Typical self defense situations...maybe filmed outside, and perhaps using someone you can bash around a bit (perhaps best not to use your wife for that?) If you could film a scenario, it would be appreciated by the literal minded types (like me) who enjoy seeing the entire application from start to finish. I know there are a few on the internet, but it would be cool to see them from someone we know!

One self defense application I don't see much about, is the technique used when one of these "gang monkey"s fight...(like you see on so many school fight videos)...you know, the untrained attacked launching numerous haymakers at his target, in rapid succession.

My instructor taught me that the best defense is a front step-kick to the lower mid-section. In his words, you will probably still get "scathed" by a few errant shots, but you can neutralize the attack by just driving straight through. That's one way, but I would be interested in seeing your approach.

I cite this example because time and time again, watching brawls on film you see these types of attacks. The guy attacks, haymakers one after another and just devastates the other person due to sheer volume of blows.

Most martial arts techniques I traditionally learned were based on one punch or kick or hold or grab coming at you, not a flurry of haymakers coming from both arms of your attacker, and coming FAST like they do in a real fight.

Don't let my wife fool you. Before I met here she could endure insane amounts of pain.

One time she closed the car door on her thumb, had to unlock the door to get it out and............

Went into Wal-mart got a bad of frozen peas and finished the grocery shopping.

She rough houses all the time. Slap fights, wrasslin'. We even shot airsofts at each other.

The "weaker" smaller nonsense is just that. She stands 5'11" and can hit pretty damn hard. And she has long reach with her arms and legs.

We'll see.

[kingoftheforest]

One self defense application I don't see much about, is the technique used when one of these "gang monkey"s fight...(like you see on so many school fight videos)...you know, the untrained attacked launching numerous haymakers at his target, in rapid succession.

My instructor taught me that the best defense is a front step-kick to the lower mid-section. In his words, you will probably still get "scathed" by a few errant shots, but you can neutralize the attack by just driving straight through. That's one way, but I would be interested in seeing your approach.

I cite this example because time and time again, watching brawls on film you see these types of attacks. The guy attacks, haymakers one after another and just devastates the other person due to sheer volume of blows.

Most martial arts techniques I traditionally learned were based on one punch or kick or hold or grab coming at you, not a flurry of haymakers coming from both arms of your attacker, and coming FAST like they do in a real fight.

My next vid is going to cover the basic and building block of defeating that "technique". Those punches take forever and cover a limited area of attack. A lot of times the attackers visibility is obscured by there own attack.

i.e. looking down while throwing punches. Not to mention they charge forward giving you a fair indication of the attack angle.

Stepping off line and moving to the side, while attacking would be your best bet IMO.

Adding a kick to the outside of the knee creates havoc on their already stressed balance.

[kingoftheforest]

But see, the stepping off line is what worries me. If the haymakers are coming from both directions, (left and right side of you)...

He can't punch you from both sides at the same time in the manner you're speaking of (if I understand you correctly.) So you step to the side he's not hitting from. It'll be easier to show.

Post a vid if you can that would be an example of this attack.

I definitely think a boxer would also just drive straight through, expecting to take a few shots on the way in,

Actually I've seen some boxers use a side step and throw a cross from the outside.

but someone doing chinese style martial arts...how do they approach these types of rapid-fire haymaker attacks?

I doubt what I do could be considered a CMA if it is it's very bastardized because it includes FMA's and JMA's as well any a few others.

[Tant01]

Go around...

But see, the stepping off line is what worries me. If the haymakers are coming from both directions, (left and right side of you)...that's what I can't wrap my mind around. Well, whatever you can show would be a learning experience for me...consider it free lessons for me over the internet!

But, you understand the type of attack I am talking about, right? It's just some punk flailing away with great fury. These types of attacks are not usually discussed in most martial arts classes. I think I can see how a grappler or wrestler would approach this, and I definitely think a boxer would also just drive straight through, expecting to take a few shots on the way in, but someone doing chinese style martial arts...how do they approach these types of rapid-fire haymaker attacks?

Don't confuse his style with someone who will stand in front of his attacker! If I'm not mistaking the whole idea of his "soft" attachment and the leg checking (jamming) is to limit his attacker's mobility while maintaining his own, smother his (attacker's) attack while delivering his own...

In theory it is all very simple. Ideally you will end up behind your attacker with a nice strangle, joint or bone destruction or stomping.

Good stuff! ...reminds me of silat!