Abir Warrior Arts

[Tokyo Kid]

You block your opponents strike at the point he is commited and you are in a position to strike from there. This is why rythm is more important than speed, not to mention skill. It is how you defeat a quicker opponent. Like how boxers keep their guard up (though I guess I did say earlier that was beside the point, eh Mellow?)

So, what is non-traditional kendo and who did you learn it from?

[Darth Roley]

That's not accurate.

How would you put it? You seem like someone who knows his stuff so I assume we are having more of a problem at communication than a difference of opinion.

There was a great tradition of sword work in Europe. The texts are still available like I.33. But none of those traditions survived into the present. What did survive was sport forms and in some cultures methods to keep up a cultural aspect. In all cases so far where we can trace a sword tradition back over a hundred years, everything was very public.

So why does there seem to be no mention of Israeli sword fighting before this guy came along?

[Da Pope]

Hi level Jin in KF is taught to be used with out sword on sword contact too.

What's that all about hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

In KF? What type of KF? What do you mean 'Jin'? Did you mean Jian?

[Da Pope]

Well if you are talking about samurai sword in particular, why are you swinging it like a club.

The way you have expressed swinging the sword is not the proper way to swing a samurai sword, since it should be more of a drawing motion.

Your equation doesn't really jive with proper technique.

I never said sword on sword didn't happen. I said it was supposed to be avoided and it can be.

Also once you block his sword with yours, you are both right back to point A and the opponent now has a better chance to hit you because he knows where your sword is exactly. Therefore if he is quicker than you, your done.

If you are training with swords daily you should be aware of this by now.

But it's obvious that you seem to already know what's possible and what's not possible by reading books, and memorizing mathematical formulas. So there is no possible way I could argue with your wealth of knowledge.

LOL

Reading all sorts of assumptions in to my posts. I recently have started traing Niten Ichi Ryu which does amounst other things use a katana (I believe you know it as a 'samurai sword') and you'll never guess what the first kata we learnt was........eh?

No? I'll tell you it was striking and blocking said strike

(LOL of course this is just a beginers thing says KOTF who's exposure to JSA seems to be some unidentified non traditional Kendo and so would know all about it.)

I also practice Arnis and have some experience with a foil and cutlass although nothing as formal as the Arnis and the Niten Ichi Ryu.

Your little tirade about mathematics and formulae was funny. I am applying my knowledge of mechanics to something that I practice not the other way around. In fact it was you who told me I should get a basic understanding of physics! But as it turns out you have a very poor understanding of the subject and once called out on it you revert to childish attempts at insult.

Outstanding!!!

So I'll continue doing what you think is impossible and you continue doing what you feel is your "only chance".

You're not going to change my mind, and it's obvious that you are set on the idea that what I have done in actual altercations against people with 3-4 foot sticks(which I guess according to you don't move as fast as swords since I did what I described) is impossible.

Good luck with that

Here's a concept for you Pope. If you don't fight with weapons using the same concepts you do empty handed, you might wanna research that just a little.

If you say you do fight empty handed the same way with a weapon, then you are one of these stand toe to toe duke it out fighters.

And that's why the concepts I present are confusing you so much.

Good Day.

In your haste to discredit me you have made that part of your post unintelligible.

Are you saying I should fight with weapons the same as I fight without? Or that I shouldnt?

[kingoftheforest]

Learning to cover with your sword is a part of any swordmanship tradition I have encountered......except yours mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Wow. So no one in history has ever done something different than the majority and been right.


Hi level Jin in KF is taught to be used with out sword on sword contact too.

What's that all about hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

[kingoftheforest]

Like I said before I practice daily with weapons and especially swords at the moment.

Well if you are talking about samurai sword in particular, why are you swinging it like a club.

The way you have expressed swinging the sword is not the proper way to swing a samurai sword, since it should be more of a drawing motion.

Your equation doesn't really jive with proper technique.

My point has been and remains that sword on sword contact is going to happen. To believe that you can move faster than a sword is crazy.

I never said sword on sword didn't happen. I said it was supposed to be avoided and it can be.

Also once you block his sword with yours, you are both right back to point A and the opponent now has a better chance to hit you because he knows where your sword is exactly. Therefore if he is quicker than you, your done.

If you are training with swords daily you should be aware of this by now.

But it's obvious that you seem to already know what's possible and what's not possible by reading books, and memorizing mathematical formulas. So there is no possible way I could argue with your wealth of knowledge.


So I'll continue doing what you think is impossible and you continue doing what you feel is your "only chance".

You're not going to change my mind, and it's obvious that you are set on the idea that what I have done in actual altercations against people with 3-4 foot sticks(which I guess according to you don't move as fast as swords since I did what I described) is impossible.

Here's a concept for you Pope. If you don't fight with weapons using the same concepts you do empty handed, you might wanna research that just a little.

If you say you do fight empty handed the same way with a weapon, then you are one of these stand toe to toe duke it out fighters.

And that's why the concepts I present are confusing you so much.

Good Day.

[Da Pope]

Thanks mellow. I see what you are saying. The wrists being th pivot point.

I was working toward that by asking what part of the sword was being watched.

You saw the reply. DP didn't correlate the two and like my 3 year old just yelled NO No.


Lot of temper tantrums in this thread.

This is a particularly obtuse reply. I have on a number of occasions llinked you to the relaveant information. YOU just didnt get it.

So instead of admitting any lack of understanding you attempt some sort of weak ad hominem attack.

Like I said before I practice daily with weapons and especially swords at the moment.

My point has been and remains that sword on sword contact is going to happen. To believe that you can move faster than a sword is crazy.

I would like to repeat TokyoKids question, what is non traditional kendo?

And also one that I raised earlier, which forms of kenjutsu are you refering to when you exclaim that they teach to avoid contact?

Learning to cover with your sword is a part of any swordmanship tradition I have encountered......except yours mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Da Pope]

How fast are your wrists moving DP? The linear velocity of your arms is LESS than the tip of your sword even though the angular velocity may be the same. Hence, there is truth in what both are you are saying. What KOTF is saying is that you have a better chance to react in time if you watch the slower moving part (i.e the hands and arm) as opposed to the sword.

But like I said, moot point. You should think less about blocking and more about cutting down the enemy.

Do you even read my posts?

[Tokyo Kid]

So let me get this straight: as long as I strike first, I'm going to win? Well what if the other guy thinks of that? Surely it's not a technique exclusive to non-traditional kendo. It must be fun pretending you are better than people you've never seen fight.

On a side note, Dale Dugas has my respect for making himself publicly available for anyone who wants to cross hands. Although I don't always agree with him, I believe he is taking traditional kung fu in the direction it should be going. In the world of martial arts, there are fewer traditionalist who are willing to put up or shut up when they are to content recieving high fives in the form of green dots.

[jubaji]

Once firearms came along, swords got tossed aside except in places like Japan that suddenly got pulled into the modern world

That's not accurate.

[Darth Roley]

Just something I wish to throw out.

I do think that there were organized military techniques used by the ancient tribes of Israel.

But why would the weapons techniques be kept up? Once firearms came along, swords got tossed aside except in places like Japan that suddenly got pulled into the modern world and some very public attempts at keeping a aspect of culture alive. More importantly, why is there no mention of these techniques being practiced between the fall of Israel and this guy?

[Darth Roley]

It seems we have two cowardly individuals here who feel the need to slander and libel both me and my teacher.

You both hide behind the internet and snipe at people, rather than step up and be adults about this.

You post up posts from other sites, claim that Im selling herbal formulas I received from Dr. Painter, and go on and on without once posting up website, contact, or martial arts school information about yourselves.

It seems between the two of you, you do not have once ounce of spine, testicular fortitude, nor plain old guts to publically state who you are while you slander and libel others.

I find that rather pathetic.

KOTF has never met my teacher yet takes other peoples word that he is what they say they are. KOTF you are a poor excuse of an intelligent human in doing so.

Keep hiding gentlemen. Or you can post up where you teach, live, and let people come to you and see if you can actually cash all these checks your mouths are writing.

I make myself known, as well as accountable for my actions on the internet. I sign my posts with my real name and contact information. That is what a real man does.

Good luck with life, gentlemen, the two of you are seriously go to need it.

I have seen some pretty pathetic rants on internet message boards, but this has to be in the top ten.

I really hate the whole "face me/my teacher or I will call you a coward" routine. When called on it (example- Ashida Kim) the folks that were screaming for a meet never seem to show up.

The internet is a forum of words and logic. If you can make a logical argument using facts instead of screaming please try to do so. As it is, you are just making yourself and your teacher look bad to anyone with half a brain.

[jubaji]

The next time I side step in Kendo class and pop a guy with my shinai I'll be sure to show him DP's mathmatical formula.

???

What sort of kendo class is this?

[kingoftheforest]

The first to attack typically wins in Kendo. The best defense is a good offense, right?

The whole "point" of the argument is that evasion is better than blocking full on force. But, sh** happens so yes, you have to block sometimes.

And you pointed out earlier, if you train properly the block is built in if it's necessary. If not it just becomes an attack.


Otherwise when you are fighting with knives, are you going to block your opponents knife with yours?




But it's good to know we have so many expert "text book" fighters here.

The next time I side step in Kendo class and pop a guy with my shinai I'll be sure to show him DP's mathmatical formula.

So he knows what happened was impossible and he can feel better about himself on paper.

I'm sure people who got shot back while missing at point blank range never die, because you can't miss at point blank right?

[mellow]

I think you're taking what Kotf is saying and putting in IN context. He's not 100% wrong. But there is parts of his arguments that are just too out there for me to ignore.

Boxing has little to do with it, though I see your point (which by the way is well made, thought out, and realistic). Look up any traditional kendo match on youtube and tell me what you see. Theory in action that run the gamut of avoiding, parrying, and blocking by individuals who are hardly beginners taught by worthless instructors.

The first to attack typically wins in Kendo. The best defense is a good offense, right?

The whole "point" of the argument is that evasion is better than blocking full on force. But, sh** happens so yes, you have to block sometimes.