Chinese Boxing defeats Muay Thai!

[MuayThaiFighter]

How can a kickboxing match give you the opportunity to try new things out when you are limited to only using a few different punches and a few different kicks? There is no reason to get angry, and the topics do "evolve" from the original message at times. More than a few people expressed surprise that muay thai was beaten by a style other than jujustu. My point is that it should come as no surprise because it is overrated.

Muay Thai is no way over rated lets not forget that the only reason that the muay thai fighters were beat was because so many restrictions were put on them.When an art has so many rules on it obviously it will lose so as far as I'm concerned this fight proved shit.Put no restrictions and we'll see who really comes out the winner and chances are it will be the Muay Thai fighters.

Other then Jujitsu !!!!!!!!! Tell when exactly did jujitsu ever beat MuayThai or at least on a consistant base to be able to prove it was dominate over Muay Thai? Beating a style a few times does not prove an art to be better it only proves it is possible.To have a dominate style you have to be able to win on a consistant basis if you don't it means crap.

Jujitsu has not beaten MuayThai besides it is rediculous to compare the two since one is grappling and the other is stand up.If you are refering to stuff like UFC you will see that it is not the jujitsu guys that win every time but the guys who do Pankration and Shooto and for the reason that they involve both Muay Thai and Grappling.No single art can beat a combined art. The only time Jujitsu always won was at the first few UFC's and that's because the Gracie's were exceptional and unusual grapplers but since then it isn't the grapplers alone who have been winning.

"How can a kickboxing match give you the opportunity to try new things out when you are limited to only using a few different punches and a few different kicks?"

This shows your ignorance since kickboxing and Muay Thai have more options for punches and kicks then karate. This I know because I have done both.

Karate doesn't have shin or knee kicks unless the school has incorporated muay kicks into their style.

We also have more punches then karate unless your school has incorporated the hand techniques of boxing in which case it would be same amount.Karate only has straight punches to lower and middle part of body and high punches to head or nose and punches are done from useless stances.Muay Thai has straight punches like jabs and right cross but we also have hooks to body and head.I rarely if ever see you karate people using hooks or upper cuts.I also never see you karate practitioners using elbows for sparring yet you will see that in Muay Thai provided country allows the use of elbows in tournaments.Another thing karate doesn't have that Muay Thai does have is the sparring from clinch and stand up wrestling.We also have more ways of blocking kicks and punches.

Conclusion: You're an idiot and talk about things you have no clue about.We have more options then you karate practictioners whether it be kicking,punching or blocking.If you think your karate shit is so good I'd like to see you sparr me and you drop to the ground in just a matter of seconds.

[konghan]

If you are saying that Muay Thai is no longer one of the best and that the chinese boxers have finally beat us,it makes no sense.If you take our main weapons away from us obviously we're not going to do that great.The whole reason why we dominate over other stand up arts is because of our main weapons such as shin,knees and elbows.So winning by taking all this away from us doesn't really prove anything so it's not something to be proud of.

If we took your guys weapons you'd lose against any style too. Fight us fairly using what you've trained in and we use what we've trained in and we would have come out the winners.Making so many rules just so you can win against another style makes no sense so all I can say is those fights prove shit.

Well if the next fight has no rules restricting Muay Thai techniques, I am willing to bet the Chinese Boxers will lose this time proving that Muay Thai is still the best stand up art in the world and always will be.

When is the next fight on tv ?

Lets look at it this way, thai boxing uses boxing, kicking, knees, sheen & elbows. They relay on power attack. Thats` what make muay thai so devastating they train hard concentrating on those factors only & their ability to take hits.
San Shoa or kung fu (professional level), uses boxing, kicking, knees, sheen, elbows, takedowns, sweeping, & some grappling. Kung fu fighters can kick as hard as any muay thai fighters, the problem in san shao they have to watch out for takedowns while in muay thai matches they don`t have to worry about takedowns since its not allowed this way they can concentrate on kicking, elbowing or kneeing without fear of being taken down or lock down.
In fact many kick boxers are learning takedowns & some grappling techniques when they compete in mix martial art tournaments becuase their techniques are being negated by takedown, wrestling & grappling techniques. In fact in UFC ( ultimate fighting conference the octagon ), most champions are grapplers because of their submission techniques.
Nonetheless, mauy thai or san shao, the best form will depend on 3 factors; technique, the fighter`s condition & condition & ability to adopt & adjust to situation, the 3rd is luck if one fighter lands a lucky shot then the fight is over.

[Rudolphuss]

Well if the next fight has no rules restricting Muay Thai techniques, I am willing to bet the Chinese Boxers will lose this time proving that Muay Thai is still the best stand up art in the world and always will be.

When is the next fight on tv ?

Dude, if you look at the date of the original article, you'll see that it's from 2001. This is a really old thread and I am surprised it's still here.

Anyways, in last year's Sanshou Vs Muay Thai challenge, Sanshou fighters defeated Muay Thai 3:2 under very liberal rules (knees, elbows, offensive throws, etc allowed). I'll watch the next one very closely .

http://crane.50megs.com/index6x.htm

[MuayThaiFighter]

Lets look at it this way, thai boxing uses boxing, kicking, knees, sheen & elbows. They relay on power attack. Thats` what make muay thai so devastating they train hard concentrating on those factors only & their ability to take hits.
San Shoa or kung fu (professional level), uses boxing, kicking, knees, sheen, elbows, takedowns, sweeping, & some grappling. Kung fu fighters can kick as hard as any muay thai fighters, the problem in san shao they have to watch out for takedowns while in muay thai matches they don`t have to worry about takedowns since its not allowed this way they can concentrate on kicking, elbowing or kneeing without fear of being taken down or lock down.
In fact many kick boxers are learning takedowns & some grappling techniques when they compete in mix martial art tournaments becuase their techniques are being negated by takedown, wrestling & grappling techniques. In fact in UFC ( ultimate fighting conference the octagon ), most champions are grapplers because of their submission techniques.
Nonetheless, mauy thai or san shao, the best form will depend on 3 factors; technique, the fighter`s condition & condition & ability to adopt & adjust to situation, the 3rd is luck if one fighter lands a lucky shot then the fight is over.

Ya and guess where San Shou got their shin and knee kicks and use of elbows for sparring? Muay Thai fighters were the first to use those as their weapons. Those are not the only things we concentrate so you are incorrect.Muay Thai also does sweeps (you guys aren't the only ones) and we do stand up wrestling.

I do agree that many kickboxers are learning takedowns though.I do Pankration so we learn grappling combined with our Muay Thai.

I don't know anything about San Shou so I can't say anything against it.Unlike some people in these threads they will argue about styles they've never even done or seen themselves.

If San Shou is same or similar to Pankration and Shooto fighting then I will have to agree it too is one of the best and most realistic arts around but if not then I will have to disagree.Any art that has Muay Thai in it for stand up fighting is a good art especially when combined with grappling and from how you describe San Shou it sounds like it is made up of Muay Thai and Grapplintg.If San Shou has katas(forms) in it then I would have to say it is only part realistic because to me katas are useless.

[Rudolphuss]

Imitation is the best form of flattery. If Sanshou adds elbows, knees, and shin roundhouse kicks into its arsenal, then it just shows the effectiveness of these techniques. There's nothing wrong with adding these techniques into Kungfu. Martial arts is constantly evolving, not constant.

[gracilva]

getting back to the subject, yes san shou is badass,
but you wont beat a MT guy(without restricting him)
unless you take him to ground and finish it there. imo.

[CKD]

If San Shou is same or similar to Pankration and Shooto fighting then I will have to agree it too is one of the best and most realistic arts around but if not then I will have to disagree.Any art that has Muay Thai in it for stand up fighting is a good art especially when combined with grappling and from how you describe San Shou it sounds like it is made up of Muay Thai and Grapplintg.If San Shou has katas(forms) in it then I would have to say it is only part realistic because to me katas are useless.

Yes sanshou is muay thai with throws. It was created by the chinese goverment that wanted to have a effective martial art for the military. They combined muay thai striking, wrestling takedowns, and judo throws. Many traditional masters of chinese arts hate the sanshou because it has drawn nothing from kung fu only other arts. and it has no forms. Many mixed martial arts people are using this for standup now. That is about the style of sanshou. Sanshou can also simply mean sparring in chinese so if a traditionalist says he is doing sanshou he is doing sparring. Some chinese schools are incorperating sanshou into the curriculum which is pretty funny. They learn all there kung fu stuff and then they have to learn all this new stuff like the boxers stance and all these new techniques.

[konghan]

Ya and guess where San Shou got their shin and knee kicks and use of elbows for sparring? Muay Thai fighters were the first to use those as their weapons. Those are not the only things we concentrate so you are incorrect.Muay Thai also does sweeps (you guys aren't the only ones) and we do stand up wrestling.

I do agree that many kickboxers are learning takedowns though.I do Pankration so we learn grappling combined with our Muay Thai.

I don't know anything about San Shou so I can't say anything against it.Unlike some people in these threads they will argue about styles they've never even done or seen themselves.

If San Shou is same or similar to Pankration and Shooto fighting then I will have to agree it too is one of the best and most realistic arts around but if not then I will have to disagree.Any art that has Muay Thai in it for stand up fighting is a good art especially when combined with grappling and from how you describe San Shou it sounds like it is made up of Muay Thai and Grapplintg.If San Shou has katas(forms) in it then I would have to say it is only part realistic because to me katas are useless.

Too much misconception as to what martial art really is all about. For those who interprete martial art as an aggressive & physical fighting style with its main purpose is only to maime & kill & to be supreme over all other martial art should really then go out & personally challenge every martial art expert & see, taste ,feel & witnessed first hand what being a martial master really means.

Traditional kung fu never did like the idea of professional fighting that means commercialised fighting like what we see in the west. In fact, muay thai fighting is a profession, people go into that field to fight for money that is why the market concept of muay thai is identical to that of boxing.

This means, that many muay thai fighters train 8-10 hrs/day 5-6x a week & their training also include shadow boxing, shadow boxing is their kata form & they would do this form for hours.

In fact years before China opened their door to the outside world or before the birth of ultimate fighting, in South east Asia the ngo cho kun kung fu have regular regional & local tournaments that have identical rules to that of present day san shou, plus elbow & knees are allowed it is set up for amatuer ngo cho kun fighters.

The reason muay thai became so identify as being such a supreme stand up sport is becuase muay thai has always been a professinal sport that is well marketed & commercialised. But still, in some muay thai tournaments they have to modify the rules depending on the level of participants & the purpose of the tournament. Some tournaments in muay thai don`t allow the use of elbow or knees, in the higher lvl its free for all.

The effectiveness of a technique like the use of the elbow, round house kick & knees as what many muay thai fighters proud themselves of can only be effective if it is properly executed with good timing & if it lands solidly on its targets. Pitting muay thai vs muay thai or muay thai vs low lvl martial art fighters is not going to be that difficult to land those devastating blows but match a pro muay thai fighter with a pro martial art fighter those techniques will not be enough if the muay thai keep getting taken down or end up in the receiving end of a submission hold.

San shou is nothing new, it is new to the outside world. China have always been underestimated by the western world, politically, economically, militarily & culturally. Both in the Korean war & Vietnam war China have proven itself that they are capable of taking on the most powerful nation on earth in fact the world was suprised with China`s capability.

In the 70`s when China finally opened itself up to the outside world the first thing that the world witnessed & was amazed as far as in the martial art world is concern, was the amazing WuShu of China. The agility, the quickness, & refiness of the wushu martial art performers.

But of course their were still many critics that say those are just performers not real martial artist. So in the 80`s the first san shou international tournament was held in Guandong province, which I was a proud participant.

At that time we know nothing about san shou nor what the chinese fighters are like & I think many of the participants from other countries have no idea either. In fact our team have this misconception that the chinese don`t know how to spar because we were told that in communist China the goverment don`t allow sparring tournament. So we had this idea that it would be an easy win.

But to our & to all the foreign fighters amazements, in fact one foreign team protested regarding the use of takedowns the power & high calibre of chinese fighters was amazing. Their power kicks, the take downs the chinese san shou fighter know what they were doing.

San shou is the answer for kung fu to the world market on commercialised tournaments. Kung fu having so many styles with different concepts just could not agree on one single uniform style that would kind`d respresent & put China`s martial art in the world market.

So the Goverment of China took to the task of officially setting up Wushu as the official performance martial art form & San shou the official contact or stand up martial art of China. But this doesn`t mean that other kung fu styles will be ignored instead they allowed other kung fu styles to participate both in the forms & san shou category.

People who donot understand the essence of kata forms will not achieved that full martial art enlightenment. Many stand up fighters that concentrate only on external training of full contact techniques can only go on usually till the age of 45. But people who do kata can go on even pass 70 yrs old not in the fighting sense but in developing their health & toning the external, internal muscles as well as the internal organs. Kata form training go hand in hand with technique application.

Nonetheless the training in shadow boxing shows us that forms are important, the only different is that the boxing or muay thai shadow forms have been simplified & is concentrated on developing the external power. Forms done properly can help develop proper breathing, concentration, psychological conditioning & enhance the hidden superhuman strength in every individual that make them fearless. The sixth sense is develop.

So to say & insist that muay thai is the better contact sport & that the use of the knees & elbows are taken from muay thai or saying that forms are useless will only reflect the arrogance & lack of information as to what martial art is really about.

[MuayThaiFighter]

Too much misconception as to what martial art really is all about. For those who interprete martial art as an aggressive & physical fighting style with its main purpose is only to maime & kill & to be supreme over all other martial art should really then go out & personally challenge every martial art expert & see, taste ,feel & witnessed first hand what being a martial master really means.

Traditional kung fu never did like the idea of professional fighting that means commercialised fighting like what we see in the west. In fact, muay thai fighting is a profession, people go into that field to fight for money that is why the market concept of muay thai is identical to that of boxing.

This means, that many muay thai fighters train 8-10 hrs/day 5-6x a week & their training also include shadow boxing, shadow boxing is their kata form & they would do this form for hours.

In fact years before China opened their door to the outside world or before the birth of ultimate fighting, in South east Asia the ngo cho kun kung fu have regular regional & local tournaments that have identical rules to that of present day san shou, plus elbow & knees are allowed it is set up for amatuer ngo cho kun fighters.

The reason muay thai became so identify as being such a supreme stand up sport is becuase muay thai has always been a professinal sport that is well marketed & commercialised. But still, in some muay thai tournaments they have to modify the rules depending on the level of participants & the purpose of the tournament. Some tournaments in muay thai don`t allow the use of elbow or knees, in the higher lvl its free for all.

The effectiveness of a technique like the use of the elbow, round house kick & knees as what many muay thai fighters proud themselves of can only be effective if it is properly executed with good timing & if it lands solidly on its targets. Pitting muay thai vs muay thai or muay thai vs low lvl martial art fighters is not going to be that difficult to land those devastating blows but match a pro muay thai fighter with a pro martial art fighter those techniques will not be enough if the muay thai keep getting taken down or end up in the receiving end of a submission hold.

San shou is nothing new, it is new to the outside world. China have always been underestimated by the western world, politically, economically, militarily & culturally. Both in the Korean war & Vietnam war China have proven itself that they are capable of taking on the most powerful nation on earth in fact the world was suprised with China`s capability.

In the 70`s when China finally opened itself up to the outside world the first thing that the world witnessed & was amazed as far as in the martial art world is concern, was the amazing WuShu of China. The agility, the quickness, & refiness of the wushu martial art performers.

But of course their were still many critics that say those are just performers not real martial artist. So in the 80`s the first san shou international tournament was held in Guandong province, which I was a proud participant.

At that time we know nothing about san shou nor what the chinese fighters are like & I think many of the participants from other countries have no idea either. In fact our team have this misconception that the chinese don`t know how to spar because we were told that in communist China the goverment don`t allow sparring tournament. So we had this idea that it would be an easy win.

But to our & to all the foreign fighters amazements, in fact one foreign team protested regarding the use of takedowns the power & high calibre of chinese fighters was amazing. Their power kicks, the take downs the chinese san shou fighter know what they were doing.

San shou is the answer for kung fu to the world market on commercialised tournaments. Kung fu having so many styles with different concepts just could not agree on one single uniform style that would kind`d respresent & put China`s martial art in the world market.

So the Goverment of China took to the task of officially setting up Wushu as the official performance martial art form & San shou the official contact or stand up martial art of China. But this doesn`t mean that other kung fu styles will be ignored instead they allowed other kung fu styles to participate both in the forms & san shou category.

People who donot understand the essence of kata forms will not achieved that full martial art enlightenment. Many stand up fighters that concentrate only on external training of full contact techniques can only go on usually till the age of 45. But people who do kata can go on even pass 70 yrs old not in the fighting sense but in developing their health & toning the external, internal muscles as well as the internal organs. Kata form training go hand in hand with technique application.

Nonetheless the training in shadow boxing shows us that forms are important, the only different is that the boxing or muay thai shadow forms have been simplified & is concentrated on developing the external power. Forms done properly can help develop proper breathing, concentration, psychological conditioning & enhance the hidden superhuman strength in every individual that make them fearless. The sixth sense is develop.

So to say & insist that muay thai is the better contact sport & that the use of the knees & elbows are taken from muay thai or saying that forms are useless will only reflect the arrogance & lack of information as to what martial art is really about.

No one is saying martial arts is aggressive but the fact is martial arts was first invented for the purpose of self-defense.Talking about challenging every martial art expert is something I 'd be willing to do since I'm a Muay Thai fighter.

Traditional Kung didn't like the idea of professional fighting is the whole reason that most Kung Fu schools stick to tradition and never improve.

There is a huge difference between kata and shadow boxing so don't even compare the two.

It is true that many chinese martial arts styles don't know anything about sparring to name a few are kung fu,tai chi,wing chun etc.

Another thing you are wrong about is that you don't need to do kata to achieve enlightenment.

"Kata form training go hand in hand with technique application." Oh really!!!!!! and exactly how many martial artists even know the application to their katas? Very few,even most instructors don't know it themselves they just know how to do the katas.

To say muay thai wasn't the first to use shins, knees,elbows is plain ignorance since the fact is we were.

Do you even know what martial arts is about? Please inform us exactly what martial arts is about if I don't know and you do.

I know it is about self-defense,the whole reason it was first invented however doesn't mean the way it was originally done worked or works now.

[konghan]

No one is saying martial arts is aggressive but the fact is martial arts was first invented for the purpose of self-defense.Talking about challenging every martial art expert is something I 'd be willing to do since I'm a Muay Thai fighter.

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Martial art is not aggressive its the person who possesses such skill that will make martial art aggressive. That is why many martial arts comes with the teaching to pratictioner to be humble & to use the skill only as a last resort.

Well, to make the story short & for you to get your answer & satisfaction as far as the superiority of muay thai, then go & participate in san shou, ultimate fighting & mix martial art tournament. There is nothing more that can be said here.

The superiority of a martial art style will largely depend on the individual training, skill & dedication. One day it maybe a muay thai boxer that reing supreme & on other days it would be a kung fu fighter or a shootfighter, a jujitsu, a wrestler or a judoka. But this doesn`t mean one style was superior over the other becuase the reigning champion happened to be of that particular style but rather it so happen that the athletle is more superior then the other.

In fact 25 yrs ago, I had this urge to test my kung fu skill specially at that time kung fu has a bad rep, just like you they laugh at kung fu. So I participated in this national tournament, its a mix martial art. Rules are 3 round 2 min/ea round. High kicking are allowed any sort of kick ok, knees & elbows only to the body, takedowns, wrestling moves are allowed & a player is allowed to make a follow up attack within 3 seconds when the opponent is down. Body armored, boxing gloves no head gear. And proudly I was able to win the championship after fighting with different type of fighters there were karatekas, tae kwan do, boxers, kick boxers & wrestler. This tournament was rated for non professional fighters but many participant have extensive fighting expereince not in the professional sense but in tournament participation.

And I won after defeating 12 fighters of different style & I won not because my style was superior then theirs, but it so happened I was more prepared than them. I spend a yr studying & watching videos of that tournament analysing the kind of fighters that are there & what moves they usually execute before I sign up to go up against them. One thing I was able to prove to myself was that Ngo Cho Kun kung fu is a good kung fu martial art.

After winning that national championship I was send to Guandong China with other champions, that was early 80`s to participate in the First San Shou invitational International tournament. This time I didn`t have any information what this san shou is about or how good or strong those chinese fighters were. In fact my information was base on misconception that communist China don`t allow sparring tournaments & that chinese fighters have no good expereince. How wrong we were, I tasted my first defeat & without shame to a very superior chinese fighter who is a KUNG FU FIGHTER.

And if we are talking about self defense, martial art is slowly becoming irrelevant because of the presence of guns & the improvement of law enforcements. Many martial art participants in the west specially those under the age of 25`s train with one purpose in mind & that is to fight not for self defense. In the east its about culture & tradition as well as that special privelage to learn & possess such skill.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Why do MT people think knees and elbows come from MT, most MA have them, they only do not score in many of the competitionstyles
Also shinkicks were a part of other arts too (sune geri in 1935 karate )
as well as uppercuts ( shita tsuki)

In most arts Competittion is nowhere near the complete art

[CKD]

Just too add something in there are two types of sanshou the actual style and free sparring. The actual style is a combination of MT, wrestling, and judo. It does not have any forms and is very effective, several mma fighters are using it along with k-1 fighters. Many traditionalist do not like the style of sanshou because it does not have any kung fu in it. But traditional kung fu schools are teaching the actual style of Sanshou seperately. Then there is Sanshou which just means free sparring. Oh and check out the United states kuosho federation and check out the lei tai fighting which has competitors coming from both the style of sanshou and traditional kung fu.

[konghan]

TracyKarate: There are 2 different types of muay thai, one for the ring and one for the streats. The style for the ring has less deadly techniques because the objective in the ring isnt to kill your opponent (although mt practitioner die in the ring every year.

Now pearsonally the average mt practitioner of either style would win against the average karate practitioner. Why is this? It is because much or karate is full of shit, and the deadlier techniques that actually work aren't taught because people dont want to get sued. Also because karate practitioner rely too much on katas and beating the crap out of the air is nothing more than that. They arent accustomed to being being hit which will happen in real life, while the MT practictioner are.

I could go on and on about this but am too lazy, but in general a style that trains in heavy contact that teaches and trains more of a combative style is more effective than a sportive style. The only problem is that many people feal that just the mere knowladge of these techniques/principals will protect them they dont perfect them. They dont understand the intricacies and many times they think they are learning good stuff while they are really learning crap.

katas have two purpose, one to train for health purposes & tradition, two to train for fighting. If one is to train for health or for tradition purposes it will not be an effective tool for fighting in the ring, but it will still be effective against a non martial artist. Like a bully, a home invader, thugs or a magger, kata can be effective against those kinds of threat. if one want to participate in ring tournaments then katas should go hand in hand with actual sparring, techniques are disected & the best & most practical techniques are pick up & applied in training ex. kick- punch, kicking & punching the heavy bag for several hrs plus other techniques.

But, the bottom line is, katas techniques should be explained properly for the practitioner to understand its purpose & application. Because as you have said, katas or anything for that matter will become ineffective & will serve no purpose if one doesnot understand its essence.

Same with a MT or San shaou, those fighters train heavily on only 4 or 5 techniques & for those techniques to be effective those fighters must understand its purpose if not they will not be able to execute them properly or in good timing.

Me, personlly I beleive that katas work & I`m speaking from my own personal expereince plus I don`t know how other katas practitioner trained so I couldnot speak for them in general maybe they train differently. Me, my kung fu form which is Ngo Cho Kun as taught to me by my late master Lo King Hui. He emphasied on proper power generation both in punch & kicks, side stepping, defense, balance, concentration, preparing the body to absorb punishment & to attack with furosity. Under him, kung fu was a boot camp a military form of training. In fact for every 30 new students only 7 or less will survive the first 2 months of training & continue on, the rest usaully quite because they couldnot take the regirous regimen & becuase most of them are students or part timers just like me ( a high schooler) at that time, they have to go to school, other have family businesses so basically kung fu for them is just a pass time. it is very rare to find somebody practicing kung fu for a living or for a future career. Most parents want their kids to be professional doctors, lawyers, accountants or any scholarly career not kung fu fighter.

That is why Mt is so great because one of the reason is that most MT fighters are in to it for the money & for the career. Most of the MT fighters in Thailand come from poor families & if somebody would pay me to train at that time (30 yrs ago) I would have trained as hard & rigorous as those MT or professional fighters & maybe I would have fought with 3 or 5 MT & won maybe 2 or 3 of the fights

Now, here in North America being a prize fighter can bring a stable good financial future too, not only that, being good at sports espacially in basketball, hockey, football or baseball one can really look foward for a bright & stable $$ future.

[formless_art]

i cant believe it

tracykarate,

you cant possibly overrate muay thai. it is an art, what MIGHT be overrated is its fighters. muaythaifighter,there is no way one art is better than the other. even if a muay thai guy beats a karate guy 1000000 times and never loses, it only proves that the muay thai FIGHTER was better than the karate FIGHTER. to sum it up

Its not the art, but the one who weilds it.

[jubaji]

tracykarate,

you cant possibly overrate muay thai. it is an art, what MIGHT be overrated is its fighters. muaythaifighter,there is no way one art is better than the other. even if a muay thai guy beats a karate guy 1000000 times and never loses, it only proves that the muay thai FIGHTER was better than the karate FIGHTER. to sum it up

Its not the art, but the one who weilds it.

What if 1000000 muay thai fighters beat 1000000 karate fighters? What then?