Ngo Cho Kun

[joedoe]

Are you sure at what you are talking about? I've seen them train and and have talked with my sifu about it. Both styles of crane seem to be a long fist and wing chun short. Wing chun's closest relo is lung ying and is more snake style than crane. The only relation between 5 fist animal and wing chun is from the destruction of the shaolin temple in which wing chun, bak mei, NCK, white tiger, plum flower fist and various others escaped with the 5 elders.

I can accept that I may be wrong, but from what I have seen Fukien white crane it is a short hand system. My understanding is that Wing Chun is derived from both snake and crane. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Chun

I may not have been very clear on what I said. Ngor Chor Kun and Wing Chun are not related, other than having the common element of white crane. And the Five Ancestors of NCK are not the same as the Five Elders of Shaolin.

[joedoe]

one of the training methods we use is for a partner to stand in stance holding a kick shield or thai pad against their chest, we then hit them with various techniques. this not only provides the 'hitter' with feedback and ability to develop a penetrating power but also provides the ' holder' with a chance to test their stance and rooting.

Yup, that is a good training exercise. It is amazing how many people cannot hit properly and find this out when they do this exercise.

[yentao]

why are there no real traditional chinese matrtial artist who have a successful carreer in competition formats like UFC, PRIDE, Etc?...

if there are let me know who they are?

but really why?....in theory we should do well, why are we not testing in these competitions?

these are only questions to promote discussions, please take them as such

regards

Who wants to fight to please other people? Especially infront of asses like Hu San Yan. But to think of it, fighting hu san yan is enough to convince me to fight there for free. I like beating raw fish like him.

[krys]

My understanding is that Wing Chun is derived from both snake and crane.

Another popular story tells it was inspired from a fight between a fox and a white crane.

[jingshen]

Another popular story tells it was inspired from a fight between a fox and a white crane.

im not too concerned about its origins, at some point it has had an influence from nck or vice versa cos the principles and practices behind the techniques are very very similar, rooting, forward ebergy are both the same. the importance of posture, etc,

and the way in which everything is tested...much like we use catching and set sparring to test each form they do so using chi sao.

just my thoughts

jingshen

[jingshen]

Who wants to fight to please other people? Especially infront of asses like Hu San Yan. But to think of it, fighting hu san yan is enough to convince me to fight there for free. I like beating raw fish like him.

why do we want to fight? cos thats what we practice to do.
in front of people? cos im proud of my art and my teachers and i have a desire to show it.

why get personal?...this debate is about our art, a chance for us to discuss the positiv ethings of th art we practice everyday.

personally i dont enjoy fighting ( i dont mean sparring) someone gets hurt, sometimes u get arrested, and always the fear runs within you. however i have practised to fight for the btter part of my life and if i cant face up to it and prove my skills then why do i practice? and without testing my skills in the way they were desinged to be used theni will never improve.

regards

jingshen

[Nazman]

im not too concerned about its origins, at some point it has had an influence from nck or vice versa cos the principles and practices behind the techniques are very very similar, rooting, forward ebergy are both the same. the importance of posture, etc,

Hi Jingshen,

Personally, I don't think WC has influenced NCK - the opposite might be true depending upon which history you follow but the third possibility is that they both share a common root and have developed in parallel with one another.

Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to train with anyone who hasn't done WC without doing NCK.

Cheers

[jingshen]

my personal view is that maybe wc was developed from nck as the history of nck predates the development of wc, im certain it has had some influence at some point. Anyway thats not really important, i was just observing the similarities between alot of principles and views in both arts

[krys]

my personal view is that maybe wc was developed from nck as the history of nck predates the development of wc,

WC is aproximately 300 years old.....to my knowledge NCK was created in the mid 1800....
Therefore NCK cannot predate WC.

[Torsion]

WC is aproximately 300 years old.....to my knowledge NCK was created in the mid 1800....
Therefore NCK cannot predate WC.

This depends on which lineage history you are referring to.

[jingshen]

mmm...dont really want to get into that debate again, think its been done before on this forum. There are obviuosly at least two lineages to nck. One is more than 700 years old the 200 years old.

I am not an historian and cannot provide proof either way.

my comments are based on what i have seen and experienced. My thoughts on NCK/WZQ are in relation to how we practice the art today.

I have experienced very strong similarities between the two systems and I BELIEVE there is a link somewhere. purely my thoughts.

regards
jingshen

[jingshen]

next subject .....'rooting'

i have worked, like i said before, withh BJJ practitioners and they find it very hard to 'shoot' onme as they normally would anyone else, also i have pushed hands with people from various 'internal' arts and indeed wingchun and have found our stance is by far more than capable of dealing with all. Im not saying its magical and yes i have been taken down but i do find the theory and practice of rooting to be very advantageuos...any thoughts?

[krys]

Out of curiosity is there sensitivity training in NCK?
I believe this is a very important component of training and would be interested to discuss this topic.
Thanks.

[jingshen]

yes, we practice a very fluid form of pushing hands. also all of the forms 'catching' contain sensitivity training as well as the set sparring drills and one step sparring drills. Basically you learn to feel the opponents movement and posture through your forearm and then use their energy on them.

[sherwinc]

mmm...dont really want to get into that debate again, think its been done before on this forum. There are obviuosly at least two lineages to nck. One is more than 700 years old the 200 years old.

I am not an historian and cannot provide proof either way.

my comments are based on what i have seen and experienced. My thoughts on NCK/WZQ are in relation to how we practice the art today.

I have experienced very strong similarities between the two systems and I BELIEVE there is a link somewhere. purely my thoughts.

regards
jingshen

the similarities that i see on WingChun and GoChoKun are:
1. the structure of their stances..... the T-shaped Stance where the rear foot=vertical and the leading foot=diagonal.... and both knees are bend for protection on various groin kicks and some hand attacks target to groin.....

2. the finger strike of GoCho and the Biu Sau of WingChun, maybe.....

but when it comes to punching...... WingChun is Vertical Sun Fist, while GoChoKun is Half ying/Half yang the structure of its fist.......